[NL20-NL50] A10 nl20 sh, vs river shove

    • Wacko118
      Wacko118
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.06.2009 Posts: 300
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.20(BB) IPoker
      SB ($10.84)
      Hero ($20.25)
      UTG ($20)
      UTG+1 ($25.87)
      CO ($6.94)
      BTN ($20.70)

      Dealt to Hero A:heart: T:heart:

      fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to $0.60, fold, Hero calls $0.40

      FLOP ($1.30) T:diamond: 4:spade: 6:heart:

      Hero checks, BTN bets $1, Hero calls $1

      TURN ($3.30) T:diamond: 4:spade: 6:heart: 3:heart:

      Hero bets $2, BTN raises to $6, Hero calls $4

      RIVER ($15.30) T:diamond: 4:spade: 6:heart: 3:heart: 7:club:

      Hero checks, BTN bets $13.10 (AI), Hero calls $12.65 (AI)

      Villain is 28/24/4.0 with an inf AF on the river.

      I call turn as if i hit my flush i think i get paid off very often, and he could be drawing himself. He may also bet to protect a worse Ten.

      i tanked a lot on the turn and since the board ran so dry i feel i should call? Especially as i look weak on the turn and i only have to be good less than 1 in 3. I also feel a lot of overpairs check the river back rather than betting?
  • 5 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Wacko118,

      What about the most important stuff here, hands sample? :) Any notes/reads?

      Why do you think donking is good on turn? Are there any draws from we should be scared or you avoid him to Check behind? What was his 2nd barrel on turn? But as played, yes we get the implied odds most likely but the question is how to react to river?

      The river play from his side obviously doesn't make much of sense, cause if he had any overpair he would never-ever ship it. So it's towards only 44/66/33 or straight. The problem is that actually on the turn he has a lot of those draws possible like 65/45 and etc type of hands which did complete on the river. So for that given reason it would depend a lot on the reads and the action earlier with the opponent here, I might even be towards folding my hand. Neither don't have anything else about the opponent, nor WTSD/W$SD.

      Best Regards.
    • Wacko118
      Wacko118
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.06.2009 Posts: 300
      Over 256 hands.

      He cbets flop 85% and then only cbets turn %40. He tends still not to call though with a 2.3 AF on the turn.

      WTSD/W$SD is 29%/40%

      I think donking is good on the turn as i think he often checks behind this board, and there are still quite a few ugly cards that can hit that river. Plus i get value from hands i beat KT, and Heart draws. A big raise gets me to fold cheaply but i dont see how his raise is big enough for me to fold.

      River: makes no sense. No overpair ships, and to be honest dont think he ever has many straight draws as why would they raise turn and why not larger and try and generate fold equity.

      I reckon he has sets or air. Only issue i see his 3x on turn on a draw heavy board doesnt make sense it should be larger especially with an aggro opponent.

      The flop bet is large as well on a dry board, why would a set not bet less to keep me in the pot more often?

      he bets 75% with position and with the 4.0 AF i feel he is more leaning towards bluffs here he that has sets?

      Especially with my check on the river since i never check the straight he feels he can fire me off a big pair, or maybe a set..
    • Wacko118
      Wacko118
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.06.2009 Posts: 300
      Also quick query.

      If the heart draw completes on the river. What is the best line?
      Bet big, bet small or check and hope he bets?

      I would probably go with bet small so he doesnt fold but occasionally induce a bet from a strong hand?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      I think donking is good on the turn as i think he often checks behind this board, and there are still quite a few ugly cards that can hit that river. Plus i get value from hands i beat KT, and Heart draws. A big raise gets me to fold cheaply but i dont see how his raise is big enough for me to fold.

      Yep, I like the donking especially vs rather small 2nd barrel guy, if he had high 2nd barrel then I would just Check/Call.

      River: makes no sense. No overpair ships, and to be honest dont think he ever has many straight draws as why would they raise turn and why not larger and try and generate fold equity.

      Well, kind of the turn play already doesn't make sense actually, guess we kind of induced him to raise us vs with the donk and I have catch myself couple of times the same way while donk the turn and they raise me. But just usually they tend to give up on the river, so therefore he has to be more aggressive side guy to see him shipping with worse on the river.

      The flop bet is large as well on a dry board, why would a set not bet less to keep me in the pot more often?

      Doesn't see the bet being very large, rather would say kind of standard sizing. Most likely he would have done that with sets to build up the pot.

      Especially with my check on the river since i never check the straight he feels he can fire me off a big pair, or maybe a set..

      That's true and most likely if he turned his hand into bluff on the turn anyways then he is shipping this river, even any pair would be turned into bluff like 88/99. But as I said you practically just beat bluff and have to expect him being capable of doing that.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      If the heart draw completes on the river. What is the best line?

      I would be most likely betting myself to avoid him Checking behind, make it kind of smallish to induce at the same time.

      Bet big, bet small or check and hope he bets?

      Against aggressive ones sometimes even small block-bet-induce works cause they are capable of shipping and turning their hand into bluff very often and maybe even sets.

      I would probably go with bet small so he doesnt fold but occasionally induce a bet from a strong hand?

      Guess I answered that a few sentences earlier. :D