[NL2-NL10] NL10: QQ 4bet against cold caller, F = 1 overcrd

    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      • 10.02.2012, 18:06
      • This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Avatars91: 10.02.2012 18:07.
      IPoker, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      BTN: $10 (100 bb)
      SB: $6.29 (62.9 bb)
      Hero (BB): $12.20 (122 bb)
      UTG: $7.99 (79.9 bb)
      MP: $19.32 (193.2 bb)
      CO: $32.79 (327.9 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with Q Q
      UTG folds, MP raises to $0.20, CO folds, BTN raises to $1.30, SB folds, Hero raises to $3.20, MP folds, BTN calls $1.90

      Flop: ($6.65) T 3 K (2 players)
      Hero bets $9 and is all-in, BTN calls $6.80 and is all-in

      Turn: ($20.25) 5 (2 players, 2 are all-in)
      River: ($20.25) 4 (2 players, 2 are all-in)

      Results: $20.25 pot ($1.35 rake)
      Final Board: T 3 K 5 4
      BTN showed K J and won $18.90 ($8.90 net)
      Hero mucked Q Q and lost (-$10 net)

      Initial raiser's stats: VP/PFR/AF/foldto3bet/hands 23/20/3.6/43/636
      Nr. of tables: 3-6
      Reads: This one is yet to be confirmed with more examples but I have a reason to suspect him of being weak when open-minraising (1 hand where he folds to a 3bet IP when openminraising from UTG against BB + 1 hand where he openminraises from MP <> tight BB CC and checks behind a QQ9s flop "(might not be the best example) + the fact that his openraise sizes vary from minraises to 3BB)

      3better's stats: VP/PFR/AF/3betfromBU/Foldto4bet/hands
      38/26/2.2/26.7(15)/66.7(3)/173
      Nr. of tables: 3-6

      This hand really confuses me. It's the flop that I am so unsure about.

      Preflop: since I suspect the initial raiser not to be too strong and fold most of the time and since the 3better's range is so wide I chose to 4bet for value.
      Flop: this is problematic. First of all, I have no idea if his range now contains anything else but premium hands (AK, QQ+ at worst ?) As much a maniac as my opponent is, I am not too sure I could say that he would be too likely to call a push on this flop with a weaker hand (since the K on the flop would quite likely prevent him from calling with a worse PP such as JJ). But then again, he has got just a little bit more than potsize left in his stack. If I 4bet preflop with the intention of getting it in, can I really ch/f here? I have no idea. Maybe I could ch/r hoping that he would bluff and committ himself?
  • 6 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Avatars91,

      Preflop: Do you think they are capable of calling with a lot worse hands vs your 4bet? Practically if they are rather thinking opponent then unless you were maniac on the table they most likely wont Call your 4bet with a lot worse. They have to be really bad for it.

      As played
      Postflop: What do you think his calling range is preflop? Especially against 4bet? I would be inclined towards strong PPs/some stronger broadways and that's it. So why do you shove here? Do you see any worse hand calling you, just some FD maybe, even a GS most likely would have folded. For that given fact if you even want to play for the stacks then you should Check/Call and let him bluff. But now again do we beat much here, just JJ?

      Best Regards.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Preflop: Do you think they are capable of calling with a lot worse hands vs your 4bet? Practically if they are rather thinking opponent then unless you were maniac on the table they most likely wont Call your 4bet with a lot worse. They have to be really bad for it.


      I think that because of his stats (not exactly the typical TAG regular) it is something that might happen from time to time, but if that is a regular habit I would doubt. So basically it would seem that when I get called here I have no reason to believe that I am a clear favorite.

      Do you regard the preflop 4-bet as a mistake?

      Postflop: What do you think his calling range is preflop? Especially against 4bet? I would be inclined towards strong PPs/some stronger broadways and that's it. So why do you shove here? Do you see any worse hand calling you, just some FD maybe, even a GS most likely would have folded. For that given fact if you even want to play for the stacks then you should Check/Call and let him bluff. But now again do we beat much here, just JJ?


      I shoved out of desperation. I know it is not too great. If I understood it correctly, on the flop it is a ch/f most of the times, right?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Do you regard the preflop 4-bet as a mistake?

      No, if we still expect him to Call with total crap.

      I shoved out of desperation. I know it is not too great. If I understood it correctly, on the flop it is a ch/f most of the times, right?

      Not always Check/Fold, depends what kind of range do we expect him to Call with but definitely I would never-ever shove here but rather Check/Call to induce him bluff or either Check/Fold depending on how loose he is.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      No, if we still expect him to Call with total crap.


      If I am unsure about whether or not villain is capable of calling with crap would a fold really be in order? That I would not like as his 3bet % in this situation is so high. I could imagine him pushing with a range that we beat every once in a while, though.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      If I am unsure about whether or not villain is capable of calling with crap would a fold really be in order? That I would not like as his 3bet % in this situation is so high. I could imagine him pushing with a range that we beat every once in a while, though.

      Well, the problem here isn't only his 3bet % but also his sizing of the 3bet. Was he 3betting always that huge? But overall vs such opponents who are maniacs I don't mind the 4bet of course -> vs unknown I would tend to fold.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Thank you!