This site uses cookies to improve your browsing experience. By continuing to browse the website, you accept such cookies. For more details and to change your settings, see our Cookie Policy and Privacy Policy. Close

[NL2-NL10] NL10: QQ 4bet against cold caller, F = 1 overcrd

    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      IPoker, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      BTN: $10 (100 bb)
      SB: $6.29 (62.9 bb)
      Hero (BB): $12.20 (122 bb)
      UTG: $7.99 (79.9 bb)
      MP: $19.32 (193.2 bb)
      CO: $32.79 (327.9 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with Q Q
      UTG folds, MP raises to $0.20, CO folds, BTN raises to $1.30, SB folds, Hero raises to $3.20, MP folds, BTN calls $1.90

      Flop: ($6.65) T 3 K (2 players)
      Hero bets $9 and is all-in, BTN calls $6.80 and is all-in

      Turn: ($20.25) 5 (2 players, 2 are all-in)
      River: ($20.25) 4 (2 players, 2 are all-in)

      Results: $20.25 pot ($1.35 rake)
      Final Board: T 3 K 5 4
      BTN showed K J and won $18.90 ($8.90 net)
      Hero mucked Q Q and lost (-$10 net)

      Initial raiser's stats: VP/PFR/AF/foldto3bet/hands 23/20/3.6/43/636
      Nr. of tables: 3-6
      Reads: This one is yet to be confirmed with more examples but I have a reason to suspect him of being weak when open-minraising (1 hand where he folds to a 3bet IP when openminraising from UTG against BB + 1 hand where he openminraises from MP <> tight BB CC and checks behind a QQ9s flop "(might not be the best example) + the fact that his openraise sizes vary from minraises to 3BB)

      3better's stats: VP/PFR/AF/3betfromBU/Foldto4bet/hands
      38/26/2.2/26.7(15)/66.7(3)/173
      Nr. of tables: 3-6

      This hand really confuses me. It's the flop that I am so unsure about.

      Preflop: since I suspect the initial raiser not to be too strong and fold most of the time and since the 3better's range is so wide I chose to 4bet for value.
      Flop: this is problematic. First of all, I have no idea if his range now contains anything else but premium hands (AK, QQ+ at worst ?) As much a maniac as my opponent is, I am not too sure I could say that he would be too likely to call a push on this flop with a weaker hand (since the K on the flop would quite likely prevent him from calling with a worse PP such as JJ). But then again, he has got just a little bit more than potsize left in his stack. If I 4bet preflop with the intention of getting it in, can I really ch/f here? I have no idea. Maybe I could ch/r hoping that he would bluff and committ himself?
  • 6 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Avatars91,

      Preflop: Do you think they are capable of calling with a lot worse hands vs your 4bet? Practically if they are rather thinking opponent then unless you were maniac on the table they most likely wont Call your 4bet with a lot worse. They have to be really bad for it.

      As played
      Postflop: What do you think his calling range is preflop? Especially against 4bet? I would be inclined towards strong PPs/some stronger broadways and that's it. So why do you shove here? Do you see any worse hand calling you, just some FD maybe, even a GS most likely would have folded. For that given fact if you even want to play for the stacks then you should Check/Call and let him bluff. But now again do we beat much here, just JJ?

      Best Regards.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Preflop: Do you think they are capable of calling with a lot worse hands vs your 4bet? Practically if they are rather thinking opponent then unless you were maniac on the table they most likely wont Call your 4bet with a lot worse. They have to be really bad for it.


      I think that because of his stats (not exactly the typical TAG regular) it is something that might happen from time to time, but if that is a regular habit I would doubt. So basically it would seem that when I get called here I have no reason to believe that I am a clear favorite.

      Do you regard the preflop 4-bet as a mistake?

      Postflop: What do you think his calling range is preflop? Especially against 4bet? I would be inclined towards strong PPs/some stronger broadways and that's it. So why do you shove here? Do you see any worse hand calling you, just some FD maybe, even a GS most likely would have folded. For that given fact if you even want to play for the stacks then you should Check/Call and let him bluff. But now again do we beat much here, just JJ?


      I shoved out of desperation. I know it is not too great. If I understood it correctly, on the flop it is a ch/f most of the times, right?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Do you regard the preflop 4-bet as a mistake?

      No, if we still expect him to Call with total crap.

      I shoved out of desperation. I know it is not too great. If I understood it correctly, on the flop it is a ch/f most of the times, right?

      Not always Check/Fold, depends what kind of range do we expect him to Call with but definitely I would never-ever shove here but rather Check/Call to induce him bluff or either Check/Fold depending on how loose he is.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      No, if we still expect him to Call with total crap.


      If I am unsure about whether or not villain is capable of calling with crap would a fold really be in order? That I would not like as his 3bet % in this situation is so high. I could imagine him pushing with a range that we beat every once in a while, though.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      If I am unsure about whether or not villain is capable of calling with crap would a fold really be in order? That I would not like as his 3bet % in this situation is so high. I could imagine him pushing with a range that we beat every once in a while, though.

      Well, the problem here isn't only his 3bet % but also his sizing of the 3bet. Was he 3betting always that huge? But overall vs such opponents who are maniacs I don't mind the 4bet of course -> vs unknown I would tend to fold.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Thank you!