PLO SH, OOP vs good players?

    • Heitzenizer
      Heitzenizer
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.02.2012 Posts: 885
      If you sit at a 6max plo table and the only good player (besides you hopefully:) ) is to your left, should you try to adapt your game in any way? Or is it better to just find another table?
      Let's say that every pot this player plays with you, he or she calls or raise basically every time you c-bet, and bets almost every time you check.

      It's hard to play back at someone like this without having anything, since you're always OOP. Any thoughts?
  • 8 replies
    • patszerdonk
      patszerdonk
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.05.2011 Posts: 834
      play tight preflop, valuebet postflop a lot, minimalize bluff.
      But, I prefer 2nd choice: find another table :)
    • fruktpuff
      fruktpuff
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.09.2010 Posts: 3,982
      I'm with patszerdonk here,

      If oop vs a good player, you need to go back to step 1: Table select again.
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,511
      Originally posted by Heitzenizer
      Let's say that every pot this player plays with you, he or she calls or raise basically every time you c-bet, and bets almost every time you check.
      Then you start to print money. You cbet with hands that you can stack off, and check-raise all the good draws/hands. And check-fold the rest. :)

      Sometimes the table is profitable even if a good player is to your left. Like if there are 2-3 massive calling stations to your right.

      We come to the fundamentals of plo here. You need to play against opponent, not just with your own cards. If you know how your opponent plays, you have to think how you can exploit his habits. Same thing with those calling stations. If they never fold, you don't bluff. If this "good" player never folds to cbet, don't make any 1 barrel stabs with bluffs. Always have a plan for your hand, and reason to do whatever you do.

      That "good" stands for the fact that he doesn't sound that good to me if he plays like that. He just abuses hero's tendency to fold a lot.
    • patszerdonk
      patszerdonk
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.05.2011 Posts: 834
      Originally posted by Kyyberi
      Originally posted by Heitzenizer
      Let's say that every pot this player plays with you, he or she calls or raise basically every time you c-bet, and bets almost every time you check.
      Then you start to print money. You cbet with hands that you can stack off, and check-raise all the good draws/hands. And check-fold the rest. :)

      Sometimes the table is profitable even if a good player is to your left. Like if there are 2-3 massive calling stations to your right.

      We come to the fundamentals of plo here. You need to play against opponent, not just with your own cards. If you know how your opponent plays, you have to think how you can exploit his habits. Same thing with those calling stations. If they never fold, you don't bluff. If this "good" player never folds to cbet, don't make any 1 barrel stabs with bluffs. Always have a plan for your hand, and reason to do whatever you do.

      That "good" stands for the fact that he doesn't sound that good to me if he plays like that. He just abuses hero's tendency to fold a lot.
      Yeah, that's make sense. And very nice explanation.

      I think I (and many other nano stakes players) just do not feel comfortable to play with this kind of player. Basically, I don't like to play OOP vs super agro player and I simply avoid him. Time to change, I think. :f_thumbsup: :f_thumbsup:
    • Heitzenizer
      Heitzenizer
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.02.2012 Posts: 885
      Originally posted by Kyyberi

      Then you start to print money. You cbet with hands that you can stack off, and check-raise all the good draws/hands. And check-fold the rest. :)

      Sometimes the table is profitable even if a good player is to your left. Like if there are 2-3 massive calling stations to your right.

      We come to the fundamentals of plo here. You need to play against opponent, not just with your own cards. If you know how your opponent plays, you have to think how you can exploit his habits. Same thing with those calling stations. If they never fold, you don't bluff. If this "good" player never folds to cbet, don't make any 1 barrel stabs with bluffs. Always have a plan for your hand, and reason to do whatever you do.

      That "good" stands for the fact that he doesn't sound that good to me if he plays like that. He just abuses hero's tendency to fold a lot.
      Great answer and I totally agree with you.
      The problem is that your game get pretty transparent. And those good hands might not come up as often as you would hope. However, like you said you have to adapt to the opponents and not your cards. If you feel like the player is a "good" player, surely a check-raise with a few more marginal hands, might also put the thinking back to your opponent.
      The way it went though, I just couldn't hit a flop so I chickened out :f_eek: and left the table.
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,511
      Originally posted by Heitzenizer
      The way it went though, I just couldn't hit a flop so I chickened out :f_eek: and left the table.
      You should say "I didn't find myself comfortable in that position, so I made +EV decision and found a better table to sit in".
    • Heitzenizer
      Heitzenizer
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.02.2012 Posts: 885
      True. :)
    • lilDave
      lilDave
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.04.2011 Posts: 264
      One of the daunting aspects of PLO is that it really is a game where you can turbo-punish weakness, and so much more so when you're IP. If you're not prepared to stack off lightly, semi-bluff hard and move chips around vs aggressive players then PLO isn't going to suit you too well.

      If you find yourself vs a villain who is playing back very aggressively vs you, then you're main adjustment should be to tighten up your pre-flop ranges slightly (this is crucial as it's essential we have stronger ranges than him PF otherwise there is no-way we can overcome positional disadvantage) and play very strong/aggressive post flop, betting flops to c/r turned equity if he's floating us a lot, being prepared to triple barrel and value-bet lighter etc

      exploiting over-aggression is quite high variance but if we don't we'll just get run over every time we enter a pot.