[NL20-NL50] SH25 - AQ in 4B pot

    • chocular77
      chocular77
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,102
      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      Hero:
      $31,7
      BB:
      $27,7

      0,15/0,25 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy.com Elephant 0.105 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is SB with A:heart: , Q:spade:
      4 folds, Hero raises to $0,75, BB raises to $2,25, Hero raises to $5,50, BB calls $3,25.

      Flop: ($11,00) 9:spade: , 4:heart: , 3:diamond: (2 players)
      Hero bets $4,5, BB raises to $10,90, Hero folds, BB gets uncalled bet back.

      Should i just skip the bluff cbet in 4B pots?

      Final Pot: $20,00
  • 5 replies
    • TetraQuark
      TetraQuark
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.05.2008 Posts: 1,520
      What is his 3b from the bb?

      If we assume he is our typical TAG reg we can flat the 3b to see the flop and take it from there.

      Since he looks a bit on a tight side, I would advise you not to 4b bluff vs his 3b because we are mostly isolating ourselfs. This means we get him to fold worse hands like Ax's he bluff 3bets and we usually keep in hands that are better than ours(he calls or shoves).
    • chocular77
      chocular77
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,102
      His range is 7%. (could be wider against SB raise)
      His flop cbet is 60%

      Yeah you are right, that would be better. I just don't like calling 3B oop.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Hi,

      I think 4-bet/call is fine that spot. bet/fold is standard on that board, with reads you can bet/shove on that dry board

      Best regards.
    • TetraQuark
      TetraQuark
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.05.2008 Posts: 1,520
      Originally posted by Kaitz20
      Hi,

      I think 4-bet/call is fine that spot. bet/fold is standard on that board, with reads you can bet/shove on that dry board

      Best regards.
      With 4b/call u mean call shove? Why do you think 4b calling a shove is fine vs a 18/14 on nl25 sh?

      Which reads should justify bet/shoving?

      Also, do we play cbets in 3b and 4b pots on xxx the same. Don't you think it is a loosing proposition to cbet xxx flops as standard? Villains esp weak ones float a LOT. Do you then just shove equally just right amount of turns?

      Reality I face is a bit different. I don't think 4b/calling shove is nearly enough +EV to make it profitable in a long run. And I don't think cbeting on xxx flops in 3b and 4b pots like standard is getting us much folds or profit while we have xy% of EQ. With this I am reffering I like to have at least one T+ card on the flop.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Hi,

      standard play should be 4-bet AK that spot. If we have history with villain then I don´t see any reason why we should also not widen our 4-bet/value range if we hate playing oop postflop.

      With 4b/call u mean call shove?
      - yes, If I would 4-bet that spot I would plan calling his shove, since I don´t see any reason why he should not shove there TT or JJ

      Why do you think 4b calling a shove is fine vs a 18/14 on nl25 sh?
      - why would be 4-bet than at the first place if we don´t call shove. We have enough Ax hands to 4-bet bluff tot hen fold to shovea nd since it is bluind vs blind people would get all-in a lot lighter than in other positions.

      Also, do we play cbets in 3b and 4b pots on xxx the same. Don't you think it is a loosing proposition to cbet xxx flops as standard? Villains esp weak ones float a LOT. Do you then just shove equally just right amount of turns?
      - I really doubt they are floating me if I c/r on 3-bet pot or lead. I don´t have to make c/r or leading that big that I am always pot committed on the turn. Weak players would more often just fold if they see aggression to my experience.

      Reality I face is a bit different. I don't think 4b/calling shove is nearly enough +EV to make it profitable in a long run. And I don't think cbeting on xxx flops in 3b and 4b pots like standard is getting us much folds or profit while we have xy% of EQ.
      - at that case you´re either raise/folding pf or c/f most boards if you don´t hit that should make playing against you very profitable. Not sure how often people would using that, but I can be sure that good players would play back to you a lot if you have reasonable raise/fold stats pf.

      Anyway, not saying that 4-bet/call should be there with AQ standard play, but against aggressive opponents I don´t really see any reason why not widen our 4-bet/calling range on the SB

      best regards,