How would you play these?

    • hogzzz
      hogzzz
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2011 Posts: 31
      Just some queries on how you guys would play some of these hands in the pokerstar 180 man turbos.

      Recently i pushed utg with 99 preflop full ring with about 11-12 BB and was called by aces in middle position. Should I be pushing this hand. Or min raising then taking it from there? Or just plain folding?

      Also in late stage with about 15 people left I had around 9-10 effective big blinds and pushed q8 in co. Is this advisable? I am trying to iron out leaks to improve my ROI so any advice would be greatly appreciated. Sorry I couldn't post the hands properly the hand converter wouldn't work with pokertracker hand history
  • 6 replies
    • gordy1957
      gordy1957
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.04.2010 Posts: 325
      pushing 99 UTG is standard with 12 BB.
      Q8o I wouldnt push there you can still wait for a better spot,Q8s depends on how tight the players after you are and stack sizes and your image.
    • hogzzz
      hogzzz
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2011 Posts: 31
      Yeah the q8 one. I could have waited for a better spot. Do you find these 180 man turbos to be wild swing wise
    • gordy1957
      gordy1957
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.04.2010 Posts: 325
      Hi Hogzz,I dont play the 180's yet I play the $1 90 man turbos and I have just recovered from an 80 BI downswing.I have a 40% roi in these games(65% befor the downswing) and have played about 800 games so far.
      This is a small sample size,but still quite a bad downswing.
      I will not play the 180's untill I have a 500 BI bankroll because I am expecting to experience downswings of 200 BIs.
      The lower the ROI the worse the swings and the longer it takes to recover from them.
      Also if you want a coach to advise you ,you have to post in the hand evaluation board,this is the discussion board.
      Cheers Gordy
    • Asaban
      Asaban
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 22.09.2006 Posts: 8,234
      Hi there

      First of all:
      Since a few weeks I am the official moderator for the english and german MTT discussion forums. Therefore you will get full support and answers to your questions from now on, delivered by an experienced MTT coach (maybe I should have asked someone else to wright this - looks kinda arrogant being written by myself :( ). The offered support will be very similar to the coverage in the hand evaluation forums. Hand evaluations will still be forwarded to the professional hand evaluators and therefore be replaced to the correct forum. I might as well open up an additional thread to introduce myself within the next few days.

      @Topic:
      The 99 hand ist standard and wp. The other hand depends on various factors. For example the table flow, your opponents stack sizes, your image, suitedness of your holding and how tight the blinds are.

      Talking about the swings occuring in 180's you will mention that swings up to 100BI and more are normal business. Therefore your BRM should be at 200 to 250BI from what i experienced. 500BI's seem to be a bit overly careful. It is obviously good to have a tight BRM. But being too tight stops you in moving up and progressing. 500BI's seem unnecessary to me as long as you are willing to move down to a lower limit again.

      If you have further questions don't hasitate to ask :)

      PS: Since I am a german coach I apologize for any pain I caused (and will cause) to native speakers by misusing their language. :D

      Regards,
      Asaban
    • hogzzz
      hogzzz
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2011 Posts: 31
      Hi Asaban,

      Yeah I have swung down over 40 buy ins playing 180 man turbos and decided to give it a rest as my bankroll took an epic hit. I feel as though there just seems to be a couple of late pushes that seem to cost my at around the 10-18th mark. Such as the q8 one previously mentioned or pushing hands like 56s from the button. I'm not sure if I'm a bad ICM player but I feel as though I'm not terrible as I have practised on ICM trainer for ages and developed pushing and calling ranges against certain hands. How much equity against a range should I have to be able to call there push in a 180 man turbo?

      Also Asaban I was wondering when you mention stack sizes both the blinds covered me in my q8 push. Does that affect my push or is it more so you are looking to see if the blinds are shorter.
    • Asaban
      Asaban
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 22.09.2006 Posts: 8,234
      In general it is obv better for you if the blinds are shorter then you are. In many cases the fold equity will be higher if this is given. Depending on the other stacksizes left in the tournament the blinds may have trouble to call their superior holdings due to ICM calculations. If they have you covered they are more willing to risk parts of their stacks since they are still in if they lose. However this depends on the overall stacksizes.

      By effective BB's you mean M? Or how did you calculate the number of BB's?
      Might have been way too deep for a push against two even bigger stacks. Obv depending on the way you counted the BB's.

      It's hard to tell you how much equity you should have without a given situation. In general this depends on the given bubble factor. You will find further informations in this article (unfortunately for gold status - you will have to play some more to be able to look at it): Klick
      There is also a new video on this theme (gold as well): Klick

      Finally you should always remember that some pushes only work if your opponents know about ICM as well. If they don't it does not only hurt them and cost them money longterm, but it will also effect your results in a negative way as well.

      If you are not sure about some of your plays you might post them in our hand discussion forums. Our professional hand evaluators will have a look at it and give you the feedback you need. It might also be a good idea to watch some videos. I recommend the videos by KatieDozier and AaronLambert. Both are available for your status.

      Regards,
      Asaban