The worst rate ever

    • fotakis
      fotakis
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2010 Posts: 88
      Preview
       

      I play cash games and I am - 27bb/100 after 60.000 hands. I study poker hard and I am not drunk when I play. This is the worst rate I have ever met. Probably I have a mental desease that I found out with poker. Any help?
  • 28 replies
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Why don't you post some links to the hands you've submitted for evaluation (one's you feel are typical and best demonstrate areas you're unsure of would be best)? That way folks can get a feel for where your weaknesses may lie and be able to offer some constructive advice.
    • phantommm92
      phantommm92
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.05.2010 Posts: 1,464
      is that 162 BI in 60k hands or am i overcalculating something?

      you need to take a big step back, move down in stakes, make a new plan and go with it. start from the basics
    • fotakis
      fotakis
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2010 Posts: 88
      It is exactly 162 BI !!! My problem is TILT. It is not that I don't know the fundamentals - I may be I can say that I know them above the average. I have read all the basic books for theory, as well as for poker psychology. i play my A-game for 60%-70% of my time, but the rest 30%-40% is terrible. Although I know that what I do is wrong, something pushes me to do it. "I don't believe him. He tries to bluff me" or "Raise-second barell- third barell with air vs a super loose opponent" and so on, are some misleading thoughts that drive me to mistakes. I understand that some of these happens to mosts of the players at some time. But I have never met something similar. And that's why I wonder if it is something more important that just tilt in poker.
      I have also to mention that generally in my life I take decisions persuated by emotions, even I recognise that they are logically incorrect.
      Regarding the purpuse to move down, I can't move MORE down. I play 0.10/0.25NL and I think that this is the lower limit that people try to play poker and not just joking. Otherwise, I would be bankrupted.
    • Krishjanis
      Krishjanis
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2010 Posts: 977
      Dude, you can't beat the limit, move down! -27bb/100 is not normal, you are just throwing money away. Move down and just deal with people making stupid plays, just play your strong hands and value bet them to death. If you can't beat the lower limits then what the fuck are you doing on NL25. I play NL2 and can deal with shit better than you, any other NL25 reg seeing your winrate will just tell you to stay on NL25 because they are eating you up, you are a fish there.
    • YinYangS
      YinYangS
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.10.2010 Posts: 1,077
      ummmm, dude. stay at NL25. i'll be there soon! :P
    • YinYangS
      YinYangS
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.10.2010 Posts: 1,077
      just joking. hehe

      first and foremost, start at the lowest limits. always be critical with yourself and ask if you are making the right play. post hands!! don't just read books. also read hand evaluations so that you could put yourself at similar situations with them.

      woot woot!!

      gl!!! :)
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      Hey fotakis,

      If tilt is your problem and you find it dificult to deal with, do what many others have done and ask Jared for help. He coaches the top people in the world on the mental side of things, so I doubt you can ask anything he doesn't know the answer to!

      +++Q&A with Jared Tendler!!+++

      some great advice from these guys to (even if some are, shall we say, a little blunt! :) ), thank you all for that.

      Best regards and here's to a tilt free future!

      Mal.
    • TiciBoy
      TiciBoy
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.01.2010 Posts: 1,235
      Originally posted by fotakis
      It is exactly 162 BI !!! My problem is TILT. It is not that I don't know the fundamentals - I may be I can say that I know them above the average. I have read all the basic books for theory, as well as for poker psychology. i play my A-game for 60%-70% of my time, but the rest 30%-40% is terrible. Although I know that what I do is wrong, something pushes me to do it. "I don't believe him. He tries to bluff me" or "Raise-second barell- third barell with air vs a super loose opponent" and so on, are some misleading thoughts that drive me to mistakes. I understand that some of these happens to mosts of the players at some time. But I have never met something similar. And that's why I wonder if it is something more important that just tilt in poker.
      I have also to mention that generally in my life I take decisions persuated by emotions, even I recognise that they are logically incorrect.
      Regarding the purpuse to move down, I can't move MORE down. I play 0.10/0.25NL and I think that this is the lower limit that people try to play poker and not just joking. Otherwise, I would be bankrupted.
      WTF? You lost $4000 on NL25 and don't wan't to move down. You must have enough money that losing 4k doesn't other you that much to move down and learn some ABC poker. Just move down for some time. And even at NL25 you do not need to make fancy moves like "Raise-second barell- third barell with air vs a super loose opponent" as you put it. Play standard TAG ABC poker.
    • phantommm92
      phantommm92
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.05.2010 Posts: 1,464
      or, if you just like donating money, then play some super agro spewtard poker ;)

      oh, and forgot to mention, IMO move up where they respect your raises
    • fotakis
      fotakis
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2010 Posts: 88
      Originally posted by TiciBoy
      Originally posted by fotakis
      It is exactly 162 BI !!! My problem is TILT. It is not that I don't know the fundamentals - I may be I can say that I know them above the average. I have read all the basic books for theory, as well as for poker psychology. i play my A-game for 60%-70% of my time, but the rest 30%-40% is terrible. Although I know that what I do is wrong, something pushes me to do it. "I don't believe him. He tries to bluff me" or "Raise-second barell- third barell with air vs a super loose opponent" and so on, are some misleading thoughts that drive me to mistakes. I understand that some of these happens to mosts of the players at some time. But I have never met something similar. And that's why I wonder if it is something more important that just tilt in poker.
      I have also to mention that generally in my life I take decisions persuated by emotions, even I recognise that they are logically incorrect.
      Regarding the purpuse to move down, I can't move MORE down. I play 0.10/0.25NL and I think that this is the lower limit that people try to play poker and not just joking. Otherwise, I would be bankrupted.
      WTF? You lost $4000 on NL25 and don't wan't to move down. You must have enough money that losing 4k doesn't other you that much to move down and learn some ABC poker. Just move down for some time. And even at NL25 you do not need to make fancy moves like "Raise-second barell- third barell with air vs a super loose opponent" as you put it. Play standard TAG ABC poker.
      Moving down doesn't make any sense. I know exactly what I must do at every action BUT I CAN'T DO IT. The same at lower limits - may be worse.
    • phantommm92
      phantommm92
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      Joined: 14.05.2010 Posts: 1,464
      why did you even open up this thread if you know your problem?
    • verneer
      verneer
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      Joined: 06.08.2009 Posts: 366
      I would like to look at your hands - can you PM me your contact info?
    • ThatGuyMatt
      ThatGuyMatt
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      Joined: 03.12.2010 Posts: 3,758
      Hey fotakis,

      Put simply, if you're losing 26bb/100 at NL25, you must be doing something wrong.

      I'd suggest you post alot of your hand in the Hand Evaluation Forum for review by one of our Coaches to find out if you are playing them correct or not.

      I also think you need to move down a limit, NL10 at least, until you learn how win there & decide you're reading to move back up again.

      I'd also suggest you hire one of our Coachs here, for $50 you could get one of them to review alot of your database and potentially reveal huge leaks.
    • Heave112
      Heave112
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.03.2009 Posts: 456
      sit on my table please u will go -40bb/100 :D
    • William340
      William340
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.02.2012 Posts: 170
      fotakis - you ask for "help" but you won't take advice.
      you say you know how to play better, but then admit you cannot play better.

      apparently, you can afford to lose at this rate at NL25.
      but if you have no interest in changing your stakes or changing your game,
      you are like an alcoholic, sitting on a barstool, complaining that his wife is going to leave him if he doesn't stop drinking.

      if your problem is truly tilt and not bad play, there are a number of very good poker books on the mental game.
      Jared Tendler and Alan Schoonmaker have written excellent books that should help.

      I am not sure if you posting HH will confirm your claim of tilt.
      making bad calls or bad bluffs is not necesarily "tilt".
      it can just be bad poker.

      you need someone to look at your play objectively,
      AND you need to be honest about your decision process & your reactions.
    • Alficor1
      Alficor1
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2010 Posts: 7,291
      Originally posted by fotakis

      Moving down doesn't make any sense. I know exactly what I must do at every action BUT I CAN'T DO IT. The same at lower limits - may be worse.
      How can that be worse at lower limits? Yea you will probably still be donating money, but it wont be as much as at NL25.
    • fotakis
      fotakis
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2010 Posts: 88
      Originally posted by William340
      fotakis - you ask for "help" but you won't take advice.
      you say you know how to play better, but then admit you cannot play better.

      apparently, you can afford to lose at this rate at NL25.
      but if you have no interest in changing your stakes or changing your game,
      you are like an alcoholic, sitting on a barstool, complaining that his wife is going to leave him if he doesn't stop drinking.

      if your problem is truly tilt and not bad play, there are a number of very good poker books on the mental game.
      Jared Tendler and Alan Schoonmaker have written excellent books that should help.

      I am not sure if you posting HH will confirm your claim of tilt.
      making bad calls or bad bluffs is not necesarily "tilt".
      it can just be bad poker.

      you need someone to look at your play objectively,
      AND you need to be honest about your decision process & your reactions.
      Thank you for your reply.
      The books that you suggest, I have already read and they were very useful. But putting them in practise????
      I submit a hand to evaluate it and to tell me whether it is a bad play or a monkey play.
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.25(BB) Replayer
      SB ($4.25)
      BB ($25)
      UTG ($29.76)
      UTG+1 ($17.03)
      UTG+2 ($25.31)
      Hero ($10)
      CO ($44.94)
      BTN ($37.75)

      Hero posts $0.25

      Dealt to Hero 2:spade: A:spade:

      UTG raises to $0.75,
      fold, fold, Hero calls $0.50, fold, BTN calls $0.75, fold, fold

      FLOP ($2.60) Q:diamond: 6:spade: Q:spade:

      UTG checks, Hero checks, BTN bets $1.76, UTG calls $1.76, Hero calls $1.76

      TURN ($7.88) Q:diamond: 6:spade: Q:spade: 6:heart:

      UTG checks, Hero checks, BTN checks

      RIVER ($7.88) Q:diamond: 6:spade: Q:spade: 6:heart: A:club:

      UTG checks, Hero bets $7.49 (AI), BTN folds, UTG calls $7.49

      UTG shows K:club: Q:heart:
      (Pre 39%, Flop 75.1%, Turn 100.0%)

      Hero shows 2:spade: A:spade:
      (Pre 61%, Flop 24.9%, Turn 0.0%)

      UTG wins $21.83
    • ThatGuyMatt
      ThatGuyMatt
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.12.2010 Posts: 3,758
      Easy fold Pre. Would you also Limp with A2o? Just because its suited doesn't improve your chances by much at all. You also shouldn't untick "Wait for BB" it instantly says fish in my head. Too impatient to even wait for the BB to come around.

      Check/Fold the river also. You're not beating anything on that river. Unless you have a very good read on villains, I wouldn't attempt to bluff there.

      You're playing Small/Mid stacked here too, A2s should never be in your range, you don't have a big enough stack to get paid when you do hit your hand. Try to play BSS with 100BB's

      Thats my 2cents ;)
    • fotakis
      fotakis
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2010 Posts: 88
      During playing the hand, I knew that what you mention was the right play. But...
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