[NL2-NL10] NL5 SH A3s steal. Odds/pot odds situation vs 2 opponents.

    • justkyle88
      justkyle88
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 7,613
      Both players are the tight reggy kind so i can give them a "nut" range like: 88,55-44,9d7d,76s,54s,76o,54o

      vs one opponent I'm 60/40~( a bit worse ), bad pot odds
      but, vs 2 opponent like it is, im about 30~% but my pot odds are 29%~, so is this a =EV spot?

      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.05(BB) Replayer
      SB ($6.67)
      BB ($5.75)
      CO ($5.80)
      Hero ($5.84)

      Dealt to Hero 3:diamond: A:diamond:

      fold, Hero raises to $0.12, SB calls $0.10, BB calls $0.07

      FLOP ($0.36) 4:diamond: 8:diamond: 5:spade:

      SB bets $0.20, BB raises to $0.60, Hero calls $0.60, SB raises to $6.55 (AI), BB calls $5.03 (AI), Hero ????? (AI)
  • 4 replies
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Hi,

      I can´t find situation where you shouldn´t get all-in on the flop, so to get maximum fold equity I think flop shove after lead and raise should be better option than just flatting raise. You may easily fold out smt like 56 or 99 and for example getting all-in higher flushdraws.

      Against nut hands you get 29%:

      board: 4d8d5s
      Hand Equity Wins Ties
      Ad3d 29.85% 33,692 810
      44, 88, 55, 67s 35.08% 39,638 810
      44, 88, 55, 67s 35.08% 39,638 810

      but they would get all-in definitely wider ranges.

      best regards,
    • justkyle88
      justkyle88
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 7,613
      I just thought it might of been a bit high variance for this lvl and we would ALWAYS be up against better hands. we get 1% extra vs the pot odds vs 2 opponents so it's a +EV play I guess????

      What wider ranges do you say they would stack off with?

      Scenario of just 1:__________??

      and

      Scenario of both getting it in:_________??

      Cheers for the extra time and thoughts on this :)
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello justkyle88,

      Well, overall both options are fine actually if we expect them to be bad. As the opponent is making so dumb raises we might even drag along the other guy who might have some worse FD or draw. :D Another possibility would be as Kaitz spoke here is the fold equity situation which perfectly well will work out but will it work out vs very strong range like sets? :( Against that kind of range we wouldn't be getting the correct equity to go broke vs just one opponent.

      Both players are the tight reggy kind so i can give them a "nut" range like: 88,55-44,9d7d,76s,54s,76o,54o

      And you said this way that they are tight so we can often expect to see sets. :) So therefore we must know our equity here, as we know we need ~30% equity which includes rake so a bit bigger even. Vs a range or something similar:

      Board: 4:diamond: 8:diamond: 5:spade:
      Equity Win Tie
      UTG 30.95% 30.72% 0.24% { Ad3d }
      UTG+1 55.42% 54.49% 0.92% { 88, 55-44, 76s, 76o }
      UTG+2 13.63% 12.71% 0.92% { QQ-JJ, 55-44, 7d6d }

      We ain't getting the equity. Of course we could widen it up a bit but overall I doubt that it would change much. Cause it would be pretty much break-even spot or kind of flippy one. :D Do we want to take it?

      Also of course if we even remove some of the overpairs which they wouldn't overplay, well... then even worse equity.

      Best Regards.
    • justkyle88
      justkyle88
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 7,613
      Awesome review Veriz.

      I agree with, well....everything :s_biggrin:

      I just got it in because I was kind of sure was just getting the right odds
      Cause it would be pretty much break-even spot or kind of flippy one. grin Do we want to take it?


      I think if we open up their range we are just kidding ourselves and trying to find false equity and answers which we just don't have.

      Thanks again. Kudos to you. Keep it up.