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Qestions regarding stats Elephant provides and their interpretation

    • Macrobeus
      Macrobeus
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.12.2007 Posts: 275
      Hi. I'm not sure my question are strictly regarding strategical part of the game but still I didn't find more suitable place to post them. Also I believe this would be useful for all newbies like me around here.

      It's all about stats (expert mode) from Elephant.

      Handrange on flop in % - the same as VPIP in PT. Shows us how loose our opponents preflop. Normal TAG average stat is ~18%;

      Invested big blinds vs a steal from late position from big blind on average - its meaning is quite clear, but what number should we expect for normal TAG? On my current limit I see this number as zero for most players and only for some it's between 0 and 0.5;

      Open raise from late position - is it calculated as % from all preflop raises? or as % from all hands played? What does this number tell us?

      Raise preflop in % - it's clear, tells us what hand range our opponent raises preflop. We should also keep in mind multipliers depending on different position of raiser which is 0.6-5.5 (from UTG to SB). Normal TAG average stat is ~9%;

      Aggression factor known from pt: (bet+raise)\call - it's also clear, shows us the opponent's aggression on average. Normal TAG average stat is ~2.7;

      Aggresively invested big blindson average - it's pretty clear from description, but what numbers to expect for TAG, LAG, maniacs or callingstations?

      Passively invested big blindson average - the same here, what numbers to expect for TAG, LAG, maniacs or callingstations?

      Also, how should we use this 2 items above to characterize our opponents?

      Won $ at showdown in % - it's also from PT. Normal TAG average stat is ~54%. Just one question here, is it counted as % from all SD opponent participated or is it a % of hands won at SD over all hands he won? Also, what does this stat tell us about our opponents?

      Went to showdown in % when seen flop - this tells us how our opponents tend to see showdown-bound when they seen flop. What is this stat for normal TAG? Is it the same as "Went to SD %" from PT? If yes, then average stat for normal TAG is ~32%;

      Went to showdown in % over all hands (Handrange showdown) - it's clear from description, but what does this tell us? Why do we need it beside "Went to showdown in % when seen flop"? Also, what is normal stat for it?

      Amount of hands available in database of this player - :)


      And one more question regarding stat which is shown for me on every table:
      Handereich showdown
      what is this? This number is rather low for me, so I don't have any idea what it means...
  • 12 replies
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Handrange on flop in % - the same as VPIP in PT. Shows us how loose our opponents preflop. Normal TAG average stat is ~18%;

      Correct (FR).

      Invested big blinds vs a steal from late position from big blind on average - its meaning is quite clear, but what number should we expect for normal TAG? On my current limit I see this number as zero for most players and only for some it's between 0 and 0.5;

      This is a new value where no known value exists right now.

      Open raise from late position - is it calculated as % from all preflop raises? or as % from all hands played? What does this number tell us?

      Only openraises from the CO and BU count for this. Should be around 30-40%.

      Raise preflop in % - it's clear, tells us what hand range our opponent raises preflop. We should also keep in mind multipliers depending on different position of raiser which is 0.6-5.5 (from UTG to SB). Normal TAG average stat is ~9%;

      Correct (FR).

      Aggression factor known from pt: (bet+raise)\call - it's also clear, shows us the opponent's aggression on average. Normal TAG average stat is ~2.7;

      Correct.

      Aggresively invested big blindson average - it's pretty clear from description, but what numbers to expect for TAG, LAG, maniacs or callingstations?

      This is a new value where no known value exists right now.

      Passively invested big blindson average - the same here, what numbers to expect for TAG, LAG, maniacs or callingstations?

      This is a new value where no known value exists right now.

      Won $ at showdown in % - it's also from PT. Normal TAG average stat is ~54%. Just one question here, is it counted as % from all SD opponent participated or is it a % of hands won at SD over all hands he won? Also, what does this stat tell us about our opponents?

      Only hands which saw a flop count and of course only hand where you saw a showdown.

      Went to showdown in % when seen flop - this tells us how our opponents tend to see showdown-bound when they seen flop. What is this stat for normal TAG? Is it the same as "Went to SD %" from PT? If yes, then average stat for normal TAG is ~32%;

      It's the same. 32% should be ok for FR. SH is 36% (and 38-40% from 5/10$+ SH).

      Went to showdown in % over all hands (Handrange showdown) - it's clear from description, but what does this tell us? Why do we need it beside "Went to showdown in % when seen flop"? Also, what is normal stat for it?

      I'm not sure here but I think it's what it says. Pretty much useless but maybe someone can use it. ;)

      And one more question regarding stat which is shown for me on every table:
      Handereich showdown

      Handbereich = hand range. It tells you with which range you went to showdown. This number has to be low because you only go with good hands to showdown. Callingstation have a much higher value here.
    • Macrobeus
      Macrobeus
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.12.2007 Posts: 275
      Thanks for your comments, ciRith, as usual :)

      As for handbereich showdown, so it's the same as Went to showdown in % over all hands (Handrange showdown). But I have 13% for the latter shown at Elephant statistics for me, while Handbereich is only 2-5% on every table I play... quite strange discrepancy...
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Hmm that's indeed a bit confsusing.

      Maybe "handbereich" is the quality of hands (only top 5% of your hands) and "wts all" is the % how often you had these hands. Just a guess. :)
    • Macrobeus
      Macrobeus
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.12.2007 Posts: 275
      Ok, maybe it's like that.

      One more question. What "W$@SD" can tell us about an opponent?
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Hmm I don't use this value very often. But if an opponent has a low value then he likes to bluff you so you can call him down a bit more often.

      55% for 36% wts is a good value. If he has 40% for example then you can call more riverbets from him if no draws arrived etc.. :)
    • Macrobeus
      Macrobeus
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.12.2007 Posts: 275
      Ah, I've finally got that only showdowns in which I participated are counted in this stat. Missed it in your first reply somehow. Now it makes sense :)
    • Yoghi
      Yoghi
      Black
      Joined: 10.09.2007 Posts: 14,387
      36 WTS? That seems to be really low. I think 38 is a lot better, with 36 you probably fold a lot of A highs where you get the odds.
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Originally posted by Yoghi
      36 WTS? That seems to be really low. I think 38 is a lot better, with 36 you probably fold a lot of A highs where you get the odds.
      Calling A-high isn't necessary on the lower limits and it's not the easiest thing to do. So it's easy to lose much more than you might win by calling A-high down.
    • Macrobeus
      Macrobeus
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.12.2007 Posts: 275
      Uhm... just checked my stats again and either they are somehow wrong, or I'm totally shodown-bound :) )
      WtSDwsF is 60-70 !!! (for different limits). Also most players have it 60 and higher! Maybe something wrong with the stats, or maybe they calculate something different? I don't feel like too much showdown-bound... But in case it is, I'll need to work on it :)
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Hmm you can't go to sd that often. Either the value is calculated in a different way or there is a bug (or I understood my PT wts wrong and it is of all hands ^^).
    • Macrobeus
      Macrobeus
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.12.2007 Posts: 275
      Went to showdown for all hands is ~13% for me, so it's also not that stat...
    • SoyCD
      SoyCD
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      Thanks ciRth for the overview ;)

      As soon as Elephant is a bit more finalized we will of course bring out guides and videos explaining all new (and old) statistics and how to best apply them.

      Till then I hope this suffices :D

      Best regards,
      SoyCD