Hyper turbo vs Fifty50

    • Styr
      Styr
      Silver
      Joined: 11.03.2009 Posts: 408
      First of all, I have been playing poker for more than five years. The first studying years wen poorly, as expected, but I have recuperated most of my losses since then. Now I actually believe to be an above average player - my live tournament results can back this up. Yet, Pokerstars does not seem to reinforce that.

      All I have tried to do, is to find a poker game:
      1 - I can beat.
      2 - With the lowest possible variance.
      3 - That does not last for too long.
      4 - That are actually filling up, and are high in traffic.
      5 - That allow me to move up in limits once I master one limit and have the bankroll to do so.

      Thus far the only games I have been winning are the 6max and 9max hyper turbo SNG'es. Thus I have managed to accomplish points one, three, and four. A few weeks ago I got to number five too, when Pokerstars introduced hyper turboes with a wider level of buy-ins. Obvioulsy goal number two is out of question as far as Hyper Turbo'es are concerned.

      I then thought that Fifty50es should be quite good variance-vise, but there must either be a huge leaks somewhere in my game, or they are just impossible to beat. And I mean IMPOSSIBLE.

      Here are two graphs. The first two for $7 and $30 Hyper Turboes respectively, and the third one for $15 Fifty50es.

      For me this does not make sense whatsoever. The cap between the EV and actual outcome is huge.



  • 9 replies
    • Wurble
      Wurble
      Silver
      Joined: 04.04.2009 Posts: 456
      There are people winning over large samples of Fifty50's.... Sharkscope leaderboards can prove this but meh, I hate them and broke even over 600 of them at the start of January.

      Why not just stick to what you're good at or play cash? Cash is inherently less swingy than sng's due to the lack of a push\fold phase and there are plenty of limits with fish all the way up. I think that in terms of % BR increase for each 1k hands cash is better than sng's too provided you're a winning player.
    • VISHMASTER
      VISHMASTER
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.04.2011 Posts: 1,118
      Hi Styr,
      In the 3rd graph for 50-50s, The AI-EV line tells you only the times u went all-in .
      Basically in 50-50, u should steal a lot @ the later stages. From ur graph I guess u play very tight @ early levels and go AI @ the later stages.
      U need to steal a lot at the middle levels (say ex:25/50 if u start with 1200-1500 stack). I have'nt played 50-50 in stars, but I play Double or nothing Sngs in 888 poker. Its pretty much similar to 50-50s. But in 50-50s u should play a really aggressive game when ur the chip leader on the bubble/pre-bubble whereas in DONs, u can sit-out if can fold ur way into the money.

      When I started playing DONs I had the same problem with the AI-EV line.
      U can start focussing on ur steal moves.
      1. Steal tight players blinds whenever u can.
      2. Try 2 finish without going AI, by stealing and re-stealing.

      PS: Most of the DON and 50-50 players are Rake back grinders who are break even players. But if ur steal game is good u can be a winning player with 10+% ROI. These games are easily beatable and u can move up quickly too. And they have the lowest variance.
    • VladimirN
      VladimirN
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.02.2008 Posts: 438
      Why are you calling fifties unbeatable when you're obviously beating them?

      Red line is what counts (if it's at all accurate).
    • VISHMASTER
      VISHMASTER
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.04.2011 Posts: 1,118
      Hi VladimirN,

      Do u still play DON? No updates in your blog? I play 10$s in 888 poker.
    • VladimirN
      VladimirN
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.02.2008 Posts: 438
      Originally posted by VISHMASTER
      Hi VladimirN,

      Do u still play DON? No updates in your blog? I play 10$s in 888 poker.
      Hey, there isn't many interesting stuff to post about. I will post more often when I get to 20s though.

      As well since I went to William Hill I try to play as few DoNs as possible, because players there are simply awful. They call with crap like J6 (10 bb deep) when I just want to steal the blinds etc. so it's practically unplayable.

      EDIT: You can post in my blog if you have a question, so we don't spam this thread.
    • redkillaa
      redkillaa
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.07.2010 Posts: 933
      Hi! im in the same boat as you are!

      Hyperturbos or 50s..

      ORRRR.. Zoom poker..

      50s seens to much BE.. Ill try the hyperturbos, do you have any material to study this mofos please? :D
    • Styr
      Styr
      Silver
      Joined: 11.03.2009 Posts: 408
      Thank you for the replies, Vishmaster, especially. :)

      I have moved to 9max Hyper Turboes since. Moved down to 6 tables and provided I do not get too mad about it on the bubble, it seems actually the be the single most profitable form of poker I have found. (Profitable, as in suiting my needs and my style, that is.)

      I will try the Fifty50es out again - maybe it will work. The reason I would consider that, is because I can move up the limits, whereas there are hardly any games at the $30 or higher levels in the 9max Hyper Turboes.

      My trouble with Fifty50es seems to be defending my blinds in the mid-levels. Lets say I hold AJo, with a 1300-1700 stack, when the blinds are 25/50 to 50/100, and a 500 stack pushes into me from a late position. Even if I have no, or little stats on them, I would be right in guessing they will push a wide range - and more often than not, they do. Well, oftentimes I win, but almost equally as often they hit, and now I am somewhat crippled myself.

      As for the EV line - the method how it is calculated, and any logic behind it remains a mystery to me. For example: I had QQ, raised pre flop, villain called with 97o, hit a straight in the flop, we ended up going all in, and my EV line went down.
    • tommygecko
      tommygecko
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.08.2012 Posts: 1,229
      I play lots of dons recently, it looks non variance heavy, but I feel otherwise. Nowadays most players actually know how to play dons, hence most games actually end only when the blinds are high and effective stacks are very short. Very often if you get a premium hand in the early stages people will just fold to your raise/open shove. Thus in most games you will be shoving very light in the late stages just to prevent yourself from blinding out. Experienced players will call lighter because they know you are shoving light, especially in turbo dons. This itself is variance heavy. I have won and lost close to 10 dons in a row before(turbo though). Dons are not very profitable anymore, unless you select your games very well, or if you're just grinding for bonuses since these games end fairly quickly if you play turbo or hypers.

      If you are a skilled player 6/9 max hypers should be way more profitable for you since you get paid much more for winning.
    • Backcushion
      Backcushion
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2007 Posts: 816
      Originally posted by Styr
      Thank you for the replies, Vishmaster, especially. :)

      I have moved to 9max Hyper Turboes since. Moved down to 6 tables and provided I do not get too mad about it on the bubble, it seems actually the be the single most profitable form of poker I have found. (Profitable, as in suiting my needs and my style, that is.)

      I will try the Fifty50es out again - maybe it will work. The reason I would consider that, is because I can move up the limits, whereas there are hardly any games at the $30 or higher levels in the 9max Hyper Turboes.

      My trouble with Fifty50es seems to be defending my blinds in the mid-levels. Lets say I hold AJo, with a 1300-1700 stack, when the blinds are 25/50 to 50/100, and a 500 stack pushes into me from a late position. Even if I have no, or little stats on them, I would be right in guessing they will push a wide range - and more often than not, they do. Well, oftentimes I win, but almost equally as often they hit, and now I am somewhat crippled myself.

      As for the EV line - the method how it is calculated, and any logic behind it remains a mystery to me. For example: I had QQ, raised pre flop, villain called with 97o, hit a straight in the flop, we ended up going all in, and my EV line went down.

      The EV line is AI-EV meaning the EV at the time you put money in.