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How aggressive is too aggressive?

    • VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 10,735
      I am having a bit of a problem.

      First some background:
      I built a reasonable BR playing NL10 during the Beginners Poker School, and extended it during a promotion playing Double-or-Nothings to get the bonus & promo payouts.

      At the end of 2011, I decided I would go back to NL2, and apply what I had learned at the higher stakes, and play at each limit until I had 10K hands of +ve winrate over those hands.

      It isn't working.
      January and February saw negative winrates both months -- not by much, but enough to be annoying. I'm only playing about 6K hands / month due to annoying interruptions like work, family and unimportant stuff like that.

      I think I might be playing TOO aggressively.
      It seems that whenever I bet out, I get a rousing chorus of folds -- If I get called, and it goes to showdown, I lose.

      I played a short (4 tables) session this morning:
      My own stats (v/p/af 3Bet ATS) after about 60 hands each,
      13/13/4    6.3 50
      21/19/11  10.5 50
      17/13/10   4.2 33
      19/10/2    2.5 0 (no good opportunity to steal)

      Yes, it is only one session, but it is fairly typical:
      Here is the session graph:

      Based on the above, should I be concerned?
      Are there adjustments I should be making to my game?
      I'll be posting some of the hands to the hand devaluation forums, but in the main, when I get beaten at showdown, I was beaten from the start.
      My WTSD is only about 30%, but my W$SD is only about 40% -- seems to me it should be higher than that. Not only that, but I seem to win the small ones and lose the big ones -- but that might just be perception.
  • 9 replies
    • ItsTeddyKGB
      Joined: 10.01.2011 Posts: 734
      Lock on this thread please.

      Get a f sample before posting crap like this.

      You played threefiddy hands, cmon.
    • VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 10,735
      Was afraid of a response like that.
      Your response makes sense if this was one session in isolation from all others.
      I posted it mere as an EXAMPLE of a typical session.
      I have 90 more like it.
      I have some winning sessions, governed almost entirely by whether I win at showdown or not.

      So forget the example.

      The question again:
      How aggressive is too aggressive?
      What (if any) adjustments should I be making if I am indeed too aggressive?

      If you don't have an answer, or are just going to bark, move on.
    • Krishjanis
      Joined: 04.01.2010 Posts: 977
      NL2 isn't the same as NL10, you have to play ABC poker on NL2 and that's it, you try fancy plays and you are done, people don't think there, they are not folding. You throw your nonshowdown winnings line out the window and focus on the green one and that's it, you can be aggressive and bluff and re-raise but if you don't have a good hand you will lose the hand because people simply won't fold.
    • mbml
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,779
      not exactly about fancy play, but you are misapplying whatever u have learned.

      Make sure you are doing something for the right reasons. Look at each stat of your opponent and decide the best course of action.
    • ihufa
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      Originally posted by ItsTeddyKGB
      Lock on this thread please.

      Get a f sample before posting crap like this.

      You played threefiddy hands, cmon.
      this reply was a perfect answer to the thread title tho, you just misunderstood him
    • Kruppe
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 2,145
      everything above 3.5 AF is just too aggro imo and i will exploit it hardcore

      also, i find it very easy to play against when someone open-raises to more than potsize preflop. i raise to 3bb, 3.5 is ok too. but 4bb is just too aggressive.
    • bradomurder
      Joined: 17.10.2008 Posts: 1,331
      a bit of swearing is ok in the right situation, no violence though

      I don't really believe in trying to learn through stats, So 3.5 is ok. That's fine but what does it tell you? Cbet less, slowplay more, play draws passively, don't vbet as thin, don't bluff as much? Who knows really, you gotta go through each session and analyse spots you're not sure on, it's the only way imo
    • MatejM47
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      You can't really use AF to get any idea of how agressive someone is. Its pretty much the most useless stat. The way to determine how agro someone is is by how much his betting/raising by street.
    • Castle93
      Joined: 06.06.2011 Posts: 1,458
      you dont need to be that to crush NL2-10, yeah yu can 3 bet/ 4 bet bluff if yu have a read, but i wouldnt go for many fancy bluff lines like triple barrelling very often because your just losing money in the long run