[NL2-NL10] Shove with two pair flop against a high 3bet opp

    • EnterG
      EnterG
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.01.2010 Posts: 632
      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      MP2:
      $4,04
      Hero:
      $6,71
      BU:
      $6,43

      0,03/0,05 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy.com Elephant 0.106 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A:club: , J:spade:
      MP2 raises to $0,18, Hero calls $0,18, CO folds, BU raises to $0,80, 3 folds, Hero calls $0,62.

      Flop: ($1,86) A:heart: , Q:spade: , J:diamond: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BU bets $1,86, Hero raises to $5,91 (All-In), BU calls $3,77 (All-In), Hero gets uncalled bet back (All-In).

      Turn: ($13,12) 5:heart:
      River: ($13,12) Q:heart: (2 players)


      Final Pot: $13,12

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      Hero shows (Ac Js)
      BU shows a full-house, aces full of queens (As Ad)

      BU wins with a full-house, aces full of queens (As Ad)


      BU has 12% 3bet pf and 100% call to 3bet pf.With this AF i should think more the bet pot size on flop i think.But what should i do with my two pair on flop ?
      I thought that maybe he had a hand like AA or JJ.But with my two pairs on flop the are only two AA left and 2 JJ.So i think that it s not a high possibility to have all 4 A or all for J on flop.
      Queens was a hand though that the opponent could have.
      Don t know.I shoved.Maybe with his low AF and W$SD = 80 i should fold the hand.


      Please see this example also.Same situation
  • 9 replies
    • ClimaxingWalrus
      ClimaxingWalrus
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.10.2010 Posts: 132
      Too weak to defend OOP even vs a 12% 3Better (you proabably don't have much of a sample either) in this spot especially at NL5 the rake rapes you and I doubt he's 3Betting 12% in this spot, maybe 5% at the most and I doubt he's even that wide. Check/call the flop once you get there, don't let him bet/fold his air or baby suited aces if he 3Bets them. You could make a case for raising in this spot on the flop since he potted it and that would be pretty suicidal with a bluff, generally when ppl pot the flop they are going with it especially in a 3bet pot so you can assume he's not folding IMO. You're doing really bad if he's tight there though about 25% vs a range like AQo+,JJ+,AKs.
    • eudodo
      eudodo
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.05.2008 Posts: 230
      It's a squeze - not 3 bet.
      Bur assuming that this is 3bet - his 3bet frequency is on a high side ... however you have only 79 hands and because of this I would just fold.

      If he keeps running after 300 hands at 57/19 then I would play back.
      btw, look at 3betting by position.
    • mallikarim
      mallikarim
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2010 Posts: 104
      I'm no poker pro or coach, but I'm not calling a pretty big squeez with Ajo OOP, in the hopes to hit some miracle flop.I think either 4-betting ( if u think he is 3-betting with sth you destroy ) or simple way and just fold and wait for a better spot.

      Dunno but calling 3 bets out of position with AJo doesnt seem sth mighy profitable at these limits.Cause if Mp2 calls, hand gets even trickier.And if he doesnt and an Ace hits the flop and now you have to face a big C-bet, you have no clue where you are.

      That's my opinion tho, might be totally wrong.

      edit : I just noticed you have 79 hands on him.This is a pretty big error on your part to just take that for granted.get a few hundred and then you can get a clue a little bit about his tendencies.
    • EnterG
      EnterG
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.01.2010 Posts: 632
      Originally posted by eudodo
      It's a squeze - not 3 bet.
      You are right thanks for mention it .

      Thanks for your replies !
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello EnterG,

      Preflop: Don't flat like that while you have so many opponents behind you! Fold it. Plus fold vs the 3bet!

      As played
      Postflop: What do you expect to beat here? But now again you made a huge mistake preflop and before even calling you should ask what to do preflop. And now if you even hit 2pairs, can you ever fold?

      Best Regards.
    • EnterG
      EnterG
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.01.2010 Posts: 632
      If i fold everytime against a 12% 3bet and wait only for QQ+ and AK maybe i become too weak and readable don t you think ?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by EnterG
      If i fold everytime against a 12% 3bet and wait only for QQ+ and AK maybe i become too weak and readable don t you think ?
      Who was talking about folding all the time? Calling is the worst option you could pick. Only option here would be 4bet/Fold.
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      this is a clear fold preflop, I might understand why u flat QJs in the previous hand vs this guy given the pot odds and your speculative value but this screams strength. The most reliable stats are your VPIP/PFR given your small sample. I wouldn't give too much credit to his 3bet stat (even though we saw him squeeze AT in the previous hand).

      As played obviously stacking off. You can look at other threads posted here, we see people playing these stakes 3-barreling KK on an Ace high board for no good reason. You beat so many worse hands like AT/AK.
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      im not going to be too afraid of getting exploited in this manner by a 57/19 fish