[NL2-NL10] Hand Evaluation Coaching - Homework #25 13.03.12

    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello PokerStrategists,

      as some of you may have heard that we have a homework in each of our No-Limit Hand Evaluation Coachings.

      Here is the homework for the coaching from March 13th, please note:

      • Everybody is invited to share his thoughts here regardless if you joined the last coaching or not.
      • Whoever is active in the homework threads can get a free database analysis by us which helps you to improve your game.

      Find the hand below waiting for you opinions and analysis posted in this thread. Furthermore do not forget to join our next coaching on Tuesday, March 20th at 6 PM GMT.

      Poker Stars $16.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1669717
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      CO: $21.73 - VPIP: 24, PFR: 19, 3B: 11, AF: 0.9, Hands: 135
      BTN: $16.16 - VPIP: 20, PFR: 18, 3B: 10, AF: 5.8, Hands: 211
      Hero (SB): $21.39 - VPIP: 23, PFR: 18, 3B: 7, AF: 3.1, Hands: 95113
      BB: $10.70 - VPIP: 38, PFR: 6, 3B: 0, AF: 1.8, Hands: 155
      UTG: $16.00 - VPIP: 13, PFR: 11, 3B: 4, AF: 10.0, Hands: 234
      MP: $4.79 - VPIP: 33, PFR: 4, 3B: 0, AF: 4.0, Hands: 103

      Pre Flop: ($0.24) Hero is SB with 5 :club: A :club:
      2 folds, CO raises to $0.40, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.32, BB calls $0.24

      Flop: ($1.20) A :spade: 6 :heart: 8 :club: (3 players)
      Hero checks, BB checks, CO bets $0.80, Hero calls $0.80, BB folds

      Turn: ($2.80) 7 :club: (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO bets $1.90, Hero raises to $6, CO raises to $20.53, Hero calls $14.19 all in

      River: ($43.18) 3 :heart: (2 players - 1 is all in)

      I called pre as we are little deep w/ CO + fish in BB. Remainder of the hand is standard?
  • 10 replies
    • FlashDavin
      FlashDavin
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2011 Posts: 421
      This hand is played awfully. I don't even like the call in the SB as we can't get too much value OOP and the fish hasn't even called yet. This means we will be playing OOP in a likely dominated hand (A6+) and potentially heads up. If we hit our A (as we do) , we can't even make a value bet or be certain of where we stand. As played, the player is not very aggressive. This means if he is going to bet 3 streets of value he has a very strong holding as he very rarely if EVER bluffs.

      On turn, a draw even completes. The reraise as a bluff could work if perhaps he didn't bet the flop and then we tried a c/r on the turn. However, as stated, if he is 2nd barrelling with that kind of AF he has a strong holding almost always. As if it wasn't obvious enough that we were beat, he goes all-in which makes it even more obvious to fold but still we go on.

      Great way to lose a stack! =(
    • muel294
      muel294
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,207
      I'm still not too comfortable playing SH but I'll give it a go :D ...

      Pre: I don't like flat calling OOP without the initiative. It is the hardest way to play and gives us the fewest options postflop.

      Okay, we are probably ahead of parts of the CO's OR range but due to the CO's low AF, we will have to give him credit for any aggression. Also, we will probably find ourselves dominated very often, even if we flop an ace.

      If we choose to play the hand I think we should be playing 3b/fold and play our hand as a preflop semi-bluff. We profit from NSDW's when our opponent folds immeadiately and if we get called we have a hand that plays well post flop. (it can make straights and flushes and makes other AX slightly less likely)

      Flop: I like the c/c line here as c/rai is overplayed (what worse hands call?) and if we donk we lose value from villains bluffs.

      I would c/c and fold the turn to continued aggression unimproved, given villains low AF. (we would expect him to check behind on the turn with all bluffs and draws)

      Turn: I really dont like the c/rai on the turn here. Yes, it is possible that we might get some better hands to fold but no worse hands will call IMO.

      When villain bets we are getting 2.4:1 and we only need 2:1 to make calling here profitable anyway. I would just c/c the turn when we are already getting the correct expressed odds to call with our huge draw (not to mention the implied odds we get).

      We can easily c/c the turn and c/f the river unimproved, easily knowing that we are: 1) rarely being bluffed and 2) making the correct decision long term

      If we have such a big draw on the flop and hero makes this play on the flop then I really like it, but with one card to come and villains range being much stronger on the the turn, then I do not like it at all.
    • HansTheGreat
      HansTheGreat
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.02.2010 Posts: 3,807
      Well preflop is kinda questionable but still I think we should ignore it and see how has the action been played. The question raise up on the turn, if we can continue or not. I think it should be fine to go broke at the first look. But the overall question what can we achieve at this moment when such a passive guy fires also the turn IP. Well maybe some better Ax hands or some weak 2 pairs. Again if we raise on the turn we should already know if we are going broke or not when he 3bets. So let give him a range(dont play SH but still going to try):


      Board: A:spade: 6:heart: 8:club:  7:club:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      SB     35.20%  33.54%   1.66% { Ac5c }
      BB     64.80%  63.14%   1.66% { AA, 88-66, A8s-A6s, T9s, 87s, 76s, A8o-A6o }


      With Cbet infos we could better determine his range with which he is continuing on the turn. It has to be a strong range. OK,we need 32,61% to make this a break even call but again it is kinda close because of the given range and but again we want for this line and we should stick to it because turning our hand now into a bluff doesnt make sense.
    • deivid2
      deivid2
      Global
      Joined: 23.05.2009 Posts: 6,366
      Yeak Fold preflop. We are deep and fish is BB but. We don't have position vs fish and fish isn't deep.

      F: c/c is pretty stand
      T: i don't like c/r CO look like ABC tag so i think his weakest hand here is AJ+ and people don't like fold his TPgk. I don't say he never fold here TPgk but many ABC player don't. we have a lot pot equity so i like c/c and c/f river if we don;t get flush or str8.
    • DeMarcohsp
      DeMarcohsp
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,975
      Pre: I agree with the call because of the fish and would like to know a little more about the CO, buy I really think we can outplay him sometimes postflop and get value when we hit hard vs both.

      Flop Would personally donk here because we want to get value from the fish and CO is going to fold a lot imo, he looks a very weakish opponent. If he calls I don't think he is going to do so with air, or that he is going to raise bluff us on flop or something like this.

      Turn Again even after c/c flop I would donk turn. We can call when he raises and stack him very often and we are left with options on the river + we can expect some FE as he looks to have a very weak game postflop.
      -By c/c we are playing very weak and not charge him for his draws + not get value when we hit
      -if we c/r we get ourselves if a shitty spot like this one in which I would personally fold because this player is having super nitty range here, but I don't see the point in doing this as he is not going to double barrel air imo so we are not c/r for value and bluffing does not make sense with this hand and vs his range.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello,

      Preflop: Rather fold the hand preflop, not the greatest hand to play with while your Ace will be often dominated and we don't know much about the opponent and how to abuse him. You will very often put yourself into trouble.

      As played
      Flop: Check/Calling is of course fine here and I wouldn't even mind but as long the loose opponent even is in the pot we could consider donking. But I do agree that I'd be towards Check/Call the flop and reevaluate the turn. To maybe even keep bluffs and weaker hands in the play.
      Turn: Check/Raising is one of the worst options here, the idea of Check/Raise could only be if we wanted to make him better Ax hands to fold. Our equity isn't going to be good here if we get it in and just 1 card to come. Of course the TP+FD+OESD may look good but in long run you will not earn profit. Therefore I would just Check/Call the turn and reevaluate it on the river.

      Best Regards.
    • DeMarcohsp
      DeMarcohsp
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,975
      And how do we intend to get value if we c/c turn?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by DeMarcohsp
      And how do we intend to get value if we c/c turn?
      What do you mean by that? From what do you want to get value then if you donk? You have to donk/Fold then. ;)
    • DeMarcohsp
      DeMarcohsp
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,975
      Yeah I think that if we donk turn we have to donk fold , but I see some weak hands in villain's range that are calling turn like pair + sd, turned fd.

      My question was that if we c/c turn as you proposed how do we play river when we hit our flush?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by DeMarcohsp
      Yeah I think that if we donk turn we have to donk fold , but I see some weak hands in villain's range that are calling turn like pair + sd, turned fd.

      My question was that if we c/c turn as you proposed how do we play river when we hit our flush?
      Most likely I would have donked out unless I expect him to be triple-barreling with TP for value there. We don't want to see him Checking behind. :)