[NL2-NL10] Folding QQ in 6 max

    • maheepsangari
      maheepsangari
      Gold
      Joined: 08.06.2010 Posts: 2,163
      Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players


      MP: $15.53 (155.3 bb)
      CO: $11.88 (118.8 bb)
      Hero (BTN): $16.27 (162.7 bb) 18/13/5.5/6.1/31/78
      SB: $10.90 (109 bb) 29/16/9.5/6.3/36/101 (3-Bet from SB 16.7%, 12 Hands)
      BB: $10.65 (106.5 bb)
      UTG: $6.20 (62 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BTN with Q Q
      UTG calls $0.10, MP calls $0.10, CO folds, Hero raises to $0.60, SB raises to $10.90 and is all-in, 4 folds

      Results: $1.50 pot
      SB mucked and won $1.50 ($0.90 net)
  • 13 replies
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Don´t see reason why player who is 3-betting from SB has 16,7% would now suddenly overbet shove AA or KK, so you should have at least 54% equity (against AA) and sometimes you see small pp-s that you´re crushing

      best regards,
    • maheepsangari
      maheepsangari
      Gold
      Joined: 08.06.2010 Posts: 2,163
      Would this sample really be reliable, 12 hands. He also didn't 3-Bet from any other position just from SB.
    • CallumN
      CallumN
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2012 Posts: 1,141
      I would break my mouse snap calling
    • Skraggy
      Skraggy
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.09.2008 Posts: 197
      Originally posted by CallumN
      I would break my mouse snap calling
      lol
    • maheepsangari
      maheepsangari
      Gold
      Joined: 08.06.2010 Posts: 2,163
      Ok, so upto what 3-Bet% would you recommend it safe to call with QQ in situations similar to this one.
    • CallumN
      CallumN
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2012 Posts: 1,141
      2%

      and even then I would still call, cause f' him! I have the third nuts
    • maheepsangari
      maheepsangari
      Gold
      Joined: 08.06.2010 Posts: 2,163
      Originally posted by CallumN
      2%

      and even then I would still call, cause f' him! I have the third nuts
      Ok, from what I've read so far in pokerstrategy articles, AK and QQ should be shoved to make people fold when you 3-Bet or 4-Bet someone. Even if you get called its ok, you still have a decent hand, but what you are suggesting is to call a shove by someone else. When we 3-Bet or 4-Bet shove we do have some fold equity as well but here thats totally out of the picture since fold equity is zero.

      Agreed the guy had a high 3-Bet which is weird since his PFR is only 16% ( could be cause of sample size) but is it really right to be calling a tight players All In shove with the ladies. Imagine a guy with 18/15/5(VPIP/PFR/3-Bet), so you're gonna break your mouse everytime he shoves?
    • CallumN
      CallumN
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2012 Posts: 1,141
      To start with we should only be 4betting for value with QQ.

      If we don't think he will shove with worse then we should not 4bet.

      When we 3bet someone with QQ we should only 5bet shove if we think he is going to call with worse.

      When we consider that basically everyone will 5bet/call a 5bet with AK in most situations, this means we should always go broke with QQ in the same spots.

      The times where we wont 4bet call QQ are for instance when we open UTG and MP 3bets us. Here we should just flat and play carefully postflop.

      If we open the BTN and get 3bet by the BB. We need a reaaaally strong read not to 4bet and call a 5bet.
    • maheepsangari
      maheepsangari
      Gold
      Joined: 08.06.2010 Posts: 2,163
      Originally posted by CallumN
      To start with we should only be 4betting for value with QQ.

      If we don't think he will shove with worse then we should not 4bet.

      When we 3bet someone with QQ we should only 5bet shove if we think he is going to call with worse.

      When we consider that basically everyone will 5bet/call a 5bet with AK in most situations, this means we should always go broke with QQ in the same spots.

      The times where we wont 4bet call QQ are for instance when we open UTG and MP 3bets us. Here we should just flat and play carefully postflop.

      If we open the BTN and get 3bet by the BB. We need a reaaaally strong read not to 4bet and call a 5bet.
      Hmm ok, lots for me to think about. Still trying to master AK and QQ pre-flop play.

      By the way after the hand I asked him what he had. He said he had AKo.
    • CallumN
      CallumN
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2012 Posts: 1,141
      One thing I would say, it is better to make a nitty fold, than a loose call!

      Its good that you are questioning things though, good luck with the rest of the articles :)
    • maheepsangari
      maheepsangari
      Gold
      Joined: 08.06.2010 Posts: 2,163
      Originally posted by CallumN
      One thing I would say, it is better to make a nitty fold, than a loose call!

      Well now you're saying something totally different. Earlier you were strongly advocating a loose call. Why this final piece of advice then?
    • CallumN
      CallumN
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2012 Posts: 1,141
      calling with QQ here is not even close to loose.

      I was just saying it in a general term. Like you open CO with 99 and the button 3bets, its a close spot, but its better to make a tight fold then a probably loose call
    • maheepsangari
      maheepsangari
      Gold
      Joined: 08.06.2010 Posts: 2,163
      Originally posted by CallumN
      calling with QQ here is not even close to loose.

      I was just saying it in a general term. Like you open CO with 99 and the button 3bets, its a close spot, but its better to make a tight fold then a probably loose call
      Ok, fair enough. :D Thanks a lot for your inputs.