[NL2-NL10] NL4 SH QKo

    • muel294
      muel294
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,207
      $0.02/$0.04 No Limit Holdem
      PartyPoker
      6 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

      Villain is an unknown as this hand was towards the beginning of a session on a fairly new site.

      Pre: I don't mind folding but I think I can easily play this hand profitably IP vs a normal CO opening range. 3b'ing is overplayed as I have to assume at this stage that I only get called by better.

      Flop: I think villain can c-bet here with a wide range such as :spade: draws, OESD's, weaker pairs and complete bluffs. On such a wet board I feel raising for value and protection against the above is best and folding to a 3b. I am happy if I take the pot right here.

      Turn: When I got called I felt like getting to showdown and controlling the size of the pot should now be my main priority. If villain b/c's his draws, then I doubt he is folding to a turn bet and I would have to b/c off my stack when villain can easily have me beat, or very good chances at getting there.

      My intention was to check back and call off on safe rivers.

      River: Since I don't know the opponent that well I assumed there is a chance he might bluff a missed draw here or even value bet QT. But in hindsight he probably checks these hands back and only bets with QJ+, so my hand is pretty much a bluff catcher now. His bet sizing threw me off little also since it looked like he didn't want a call, turns out it was for maximizing value instead.

      Stacks:
      UTG ($8.38)
      UTG+1 ($4.88)
      CO ($4.03)
      Muel294 (BTN) ($5.20)
      SB ($5.84)
      BB ($4.45)

      Pre-Flop: ($0.06, 6 players) Muel294 is BTN Q:diamond: K:club:
      2 folds, CO raises to $0.12, Muel294 calls $0.12, 2 folds

      Flop: J:spade: 2:spade: Q:spade: ($0.30, 2 players)
      CO bets $0.21, Muel294 raises to $0.63, CO calls $0.42

      Turn: 2:diamond: ($1.56, 2 players)
      CO checks, Muel294 checks

      River: 7:club: ($1.56, 2 players)
      CO bets $1.11, Muel294 calls $1.11

      Final Pot: $3.78
      CO shows two pairs, queens and jacks
      Q:club: J:club:
      Muel294 shows two pairs, queens and twos
      Q:diamond: K:club:

      CO wins $3.60 (net +$1.74)

      Muel294 lost $1.86
  • 6 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello muel294,

      Flop: Don't like the raise on the flop. What's your plan there? Do you plan to Raise/Fold??? Vs any pair+FD at the best you are just flipping.

      As played
      Turn: Huh? You raise for value on the flop but you check behind a blank on turn, could you explain me?

      As played
      River: Not much to comment as long you even Check behind on the turn.

      Best Regards.
    • muel294
      muel294
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,207
      Flop: Don't like the raise on the flop. What's your plan there? Do you plan to Raise/Fold??? Vs any pair+FD at the best you are just flipping.


      I don't see how I can just flat the flop. Surely I need to raise for value and protection vs FD's and straight draws?

      Should I just call flop and re-evaluate turn and fold to any further aggression on bad turn and rivers?

      Turn: Huh? You raise for value on the flop but you check behind a blank on turn, could you explain me?


      Well I thought that maybe raising and inflating the pot on the flop wasn't the best idea and that maybe pot control should be my focus so checked behind and just tried to get to showdown.

      In hindsight I should bet/fold the turn since I took a raise/fold line on the flop and hope to get a free showdown on the river?

      thanks
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      I don't see how I can just flat the flop. Surely I need to raise for value and protection vs FD's and straight draws?

      So you plan to go broke with your hand? :) Then just put him on a range which is going broke, take a look how bad you do! Raising is totally suicide mission here.

      Should I just call flop and re-evaluate turn and fold to any further aggression on bad turn and rivers?

      Depends what card comes, depends either he bets, depends how much he bets. Yes, pot control it and play way ahead/behind situation.

      In hindsight I should bet/fold the turn since I took a raise/fold line on the flop and hope to get a free showdown on the river?

      Why Bet/Fold?!?! You went for value on the flop as you said, you wanted to protect so it means you are going broke with your hand!
    • muel294
      muel294
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,207
      Why Bet/Fold?!?! You went for value on the flop as you said, you wanted to protect so it means you are going broke with your hand!


      As a rule of thumb....

      So if I am taking a value / protection line I have to be comfortable playing bet/broke or raise/broke?

      or

      If I am not then take a pot control approach?

      I think I am mixing the two approaches and or applying them in the wrong situations.

      need to go back to basics :facepalm: :facepalm:
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Well, read about way ahead/behind how we play it. Should give you the answer.
    • muel294
      muel294
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,207
      ok so read the WAWB article for silver. We only get worse hands to fold and better to call and in this situation villain only continues with TP and good draws:



      Board: J:spade: 2:spade: Q:spade:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      CO     61.07%  56.93%   4.14% { AA, KdKh, KdKs, KhKs, QhQc, JdJh, JdJc, JhJc, 2d2h, 2d2c, 2h2c, T9s, AsKs, AhQh, AcQc, KhQh, QhJh, QcJc, AsTs, KdTd, KhTh, KsTs, QhTh, QcTc, As9s, Ks9s, Qh9h, Qc9c, As8s, Ts8s, 9s8s, As7s, 8s7s, As6s, 7s6s, 6s5s, T9o, AsKd, AsKh, AdQh, AdQc, AhQc, AsQh, AsQc, AcQh, AsJd, AsJh, AsJc, AsTd, AsTh, AsTc, As9d, As9h, As9c, KdQh, KdQc, KhQc, KsQh, KsQc, KdTh, KdTs, KdTc, KhTd, KhTs, KhTc, KsTd, KsTh, KsTc, QhJd, QhJc, QcJd, QcJh, QhTd, QhTs, QhTc, QcTd, QcTh, QcTs, Qh9d, Qh9s, Qh9c, Qc9d, Qc9h, Qc9s }
      BU     38.93%  34.79%   4.14% { KcQd }


      the following article section makes me play in this way on draw heavy boards:

      After the flop w/o the initiative bronze

      A draw heavy board should be played differently. If you're only facing one opponent, raise on the flop. Your goal: To win the hand here and now. The jig is up if your opponent doesn't fold. Either he will let you get a cheap showdown or you will have to fold before you get there.


      Not that I blame this article for my bad play, just that I think this is where my confusion lies. Hopefully I will now be able to recongnize the difference between the two situations :D

      Thanks Veriz!