Graph + Stats (opinions please)

    • c4ught
      c4ught
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      Joined: 14.02.2008 Posts: 58




      Am i just running hot? Playing well and wont bust when i move up? I also know this isnt anywhere near enough hands. But my game isnt going to change anytime soon :D

      Also do i get another $50 after so many points or is that me making things up?
  • 19 replies
    • Drakhor
      Drakhor
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      Joined: 13.01.2008 Posts: 554
      Definitely an upswing, only. 20.51% VP$IP is way too loose, even for my standards. :P
    • armo
      armo
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      Joined: 07.03.2008 Posts: 451
      Well, according to http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/no-limit/186/ 20.51VP$IP and high AF are normal TAG stats.
    • SoyCD
      SoyCD
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      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      Originally posted by armo
      Well, according to http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/no-limit/186/ 20.51VP$IP and high AF are normal TAG stats.
      It really depends on whether this is Full Ring or Short Handed.

      With 20/10 stats there is room for optimization for FR and SH (I would say your are too loose for FR and have too low PFR in relatino to VPIP for SH) - although with such a small sample size its hard to say anything concrete..

      Best regards,
      SoyCD
    • c4ught
      c4ught
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      Joined: 14.02.2008 Posts: 58
      Interesting to hear your thoughts. This is all FR SSS.

      Im going to play a fair bit tonight. How many hands do i need 10k+ for a reliable source?
    • SoyCD
      SoyCD
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      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      Originally posted by c4ught
      Interesting to hear your thoughts. This is all FR SSS.

      Im going to play a fair bit tonight. How many hands do i need 10k+ for a reliable source?
      Oh that changes quite a bit. For SSS you are playing much much too loose and much too passive. You should tighten your game and stop limping hands. As Shortstack you lack the implied odds needed for limping meaning you should either raise or fold. Your VPIP/PFR should be nearly identical and not in the double digits (especially not over 20).

      For a good sample size you should have atleast 15-20k hands - but are you sure this is really NL10 SSS? With a 2$ stack?

      Best regards,
      SoyCD
    • c4ught
      c4ught
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      Joined: 14.02.2008 Posts: 58
      Originally posted by SoyCD
      Originally posted by c4ught
      Interesting to hear your thoughts. This is all FR SSS.

      Im going to play a fair bit tonight. How many hands do i need 10k+ for a reliable source?
      Oh that changes quite a bit. For SSS you are playing much much too loose and much too passive. You should tighten your game and stop limping hands. As Shortstack you lack the implied odds needed for limping meaning you should either raise or fold. Your VPIP/PFR should be nearly identical and not in the double digits (especially not over 20).

      For a good sample size you should have atleast 15-20k hands - but are you sure this is really NL10 SSS? With a 2$ stack?

      Best regards,
      SoyCD
      100% positive is NL10 with $2 stack. I dont limp very often at all (or didnt think i did) maybe im raising too much? About to play a long session so will see how it goes going to concentrate on not limping and see what VPIP is.
    • swissmoumout
      swissmoumout
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      Joined: 23.02.2007 Posts: 3,385
      Originally posted by c4ught
      Originally posted by SoyCD
      Originally posted by c4ught
      Interesting to hear your thoughts. This is all FR SSS.

      Im going to play a fair bit tonight. How many hands do i need 10k+ for a reliable source?
      Oh that changes quite a bit. For SSS you are playing much much too loose and much too passive. You should tighten your game and stop limping hands. As Shortstack you lack the implied odds needed for limping meaning you should either raise or fold. Your VPIP/PFR should be nearly identical and not in the double digits (especially not over 20).

      For a good sample size you should have atleast 15-20k hands - but are you sure this is really NL10 SSS? With a 2$ stack?

      Best regards,
      SoyCD
      100% positive is NL10 with $2 stack. I dont limp very often at all (or didnt think i did) maybe im raising too much? About to play a long session so will see how it goes going to concentrate on not limping and see what VPIP is.
      you should try this thing called the Starting Hands Chart.
    • c4ught
      c4ught
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      Joined: 14.02.2008 Posts: 58
      Originally posted by swissmoumout
      Originally posted by c4ught
      Originally posted by SoyCD
      Originally posted by c4ught
      Interesting to hear your thoughts. This is all FR SSS.

      Im going to play a fair bit tonight. How many hands do i need 10k+ for a reliable source?
      Oh that changes quite a bit. For SSS you are playing much much too loose and much too passive. You should tighten your game and stop limping hands. As Shortstack you lack the implied odds needed for limping meaning you should either raise or fold. Your VPIP/PFR should be nearly identical and not in the double digits (especially not over 20).

      For a good sample size you should have atleast 15-20k hands - but are you sure this is really NL10 SSS? With a 2$ stack?

      Best regards,
      SoyCD
      100% positive is NL10 with $2 stack. I dont limp very often at all (or didnt think i did) maybe im raising too much? About to play a long session so will see how it goes going to concentrate on not limping and see what VPIP is.
      you should try this thing called the Starting Hands Chart.
      I tried the starting hands chart my problem is i dont have a printer and i dont think its too hard to only play big hands etc. Maybe i should re-read the chart but i think i know what hands should be playing.

      Anyway i played 500 hands earlier today and i never limped 1 hand but still have VPIP of 14. Is this because im making up the SB too often? VPSB is 31.25!

      I will prob edit this post and put picture of the sessions stats up.
    • swissmoumout
      swissmoumout
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      Joined: 23.02.2007 Posts: 3,385
      I tried the starting hands chart my problem is i dont have a printer and i dont think its too hard to only play big hands etc. Maybe i should re-read the chart but i think i know what hands should be playing.

      Anyway i played 500 hands earlier today and i never limped 1 hand but still have VPIP of 14. Is this because im making up the SB too often? VPSB is 31.25!

      I will prob edit this post and put picture of the sessions stats up.
      judging by your 20/11 stats, apparently it is.
      You can also like, open the chart when you play if you don't have a printer. And yeah, re-read the articles to know what your SB range should be, but I'm pretty sure it isn't 30%
    • c4ught
      c4ught
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      Joined: 14.02.2008 Posts: 58
      Originally posted by swissmoumout
      I tried the starting hands chart my problem is i dont have a printer and i dont think its too hard to only play big hands etc. Maybe i should re-read the chart but i think i know what hands should be playing.

      Anyway i played 500 hands earlier today and i never limped 1 hand but still have VPIP of 14. Is this because im making up the SB too often? VPSB is 31.25!

      I will prob edit this post and put picture of the sessions stats up.
      judging by your 20/11 stats, apparently it is.
      You can also like, open the chart when you play if you don't have a printer. And yeah, re-read the articles to know what your SB range should be, but I'm pretty sure it isn't 30%
      No it obviously isnt 30%. My question was could that be what is effecting my overall VPIP. I could have it up yes but i would still like to not be completely robotic in my play.
      For example 3 rocks behind me from the CO my raising range surely increases then?
    • swissmoumout
      swissmoumout
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      Joined: 23.02.2007 Posts: 3,385
      Originally posted by c4ught
      No it obviously isnt 30%. My question was could that be what is effecting my overall VPIP. I could have it up yes but i would still like to not be completely robotic in my play.
      For example 3 rocks behind me from the CO my raising range surely increases then?
      don't play SSS then :D
      Yeah, sb vpip affects total vpip, because it's included in the total vpip (average of all seats' vpip's)
      but I don't play SSS (thank god) so I can't help you much
    • c4ught
      c4ught
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      Joined: 14.02.2008 Posts: 58
      Originally posted by swissmoumout
      Originally posted by c4ught
      No it obviously isnt 30%. My question was could that be what is effecting my overall VPIP. I could have it up yes but i would still like to not be completely robotic in my play.
      For example 3 rocks behind me from the CO my raising range surely increases then?
      don't play SSS then :D
      Yeah, sb vpip affects total vpip, because it's included in the total vpip (average of all seats' vpip's)
      but I don't play SSS (thank god) so I can't help you much
      I also cant find a chart with what i should make up the SB. I dont plan on playing SSS forever but at the moment its working so will stick with it.
    • helemaalnicks
      helemaalnicks
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      Joined: 21.09.2007 Posts: 7,195
      I think you're way smarter then swissmoumout, don't listen to him. And since he only makes a lousy ~100$/hour, id say, play nl200, and show him you're better then him.

      My advice: Everything on nr. 23.

      Btw: swissmoumout, you're a fish, for telling him to stick to the chart, I mean, he obviously doesn't have a printer, so that would be impossible.
    • c4ught
      c4ught
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.02.2008 Posts: 58
      Originally posted by helemaalnicks
      I think you're way smarter then swissmoumout, don't listen to him. And since he only makes a lousy ~100$/hour, id say, play nl200, and show him you're better then him.

      My advice: Everything on nr. 23.

      Btw: swissmoumout, you're a fish, for telling him to stick to the chart, I mean, he obviously doesn't have a printer, so that would be impossible.
      Oh wow this sarcasm is better than on my normal forums. Was going start posting more and try to learn something guess wont bother in future. Just have go do as you say and play better than the guy you mentioned :rolleyes:

      Cheers for the replies got the SHC on my 2nd screen now so going play another session where i play nothing but that.

      What does everything on nr.23. mean?
    • SoyCD
      SoyCD
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      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      Originally posted by c4ught
      100% positive is NL10 with $2 stack. I dont limp very often at all (or didnt think i did) maybe im raising too much? About to play a long session so will see how it goes going to concentrate on not limping and see what VPIP is.
      Well if you only raise 10% of yours hands but play 20% you must be limping a lot - approximately half your hands (even if SB completing seems to play a big role)

      Completing too much from the SB is quite an expensive habit over time and limp/calling as SSS is also not optimal. I would either stick to the SHC and tighten up or move to BSS. As an SSS player you are simply lacking the implied odds for this style. (Some of our high stakes coaches played 6-8 vpip / 6-8 pfr in NL10 and even similarily tight on higher stakes.

      34 SSS Stacks up in 2.3k hands is pretty sick though :o

      Irrespective of this,I would adjust your play before the downswing comes. Maybe xylere can comment here :)

      Best regards,
      SoyCD
    • c4ught
      c4ught
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      Joined: 14.02.2008 Posts: 58
      Originally posted by SoyCD
      Originally posted by c4ught
      100% positive is NL10 with $2 stack. I dont limp very often at all (or didnt think i did) maybe im raising too much? About to play a long session so will see how it goes going to concentrate on not limping and see what VPIP is.
      Well if you only raise 10% of yours hands but play 20% you must be limping a lot - approximately half your hands (even if SB completing seems to play a big role)

      Completing too much from the SB is quite an expensive habit over time and limp/calling as SSS is also not optimal. I would either stick to the SHC and tighten up or move to BSS. As an SSS player you are simply lacking the implied odds for this style.

      34 SSS Stacks up in 2.3k hands is pretty sick though :o

      Irregardless I would adjust your play. Maybe xylere can comment here :)

      Best regards,
      SoyCD
      Who's xylere?

      I think my play may be suited to BSS but i dont fancy playing with 11 buyins just yet although some of the play i have seen i can see why there is arguments for both strategies.

      I have been looking at some players who i have in my DB that i have a fair few hands for and some of there VPIP are sick. 500hands 7VPIP im double that and he plays with a large stack.


      That was my last session and i can definately say i didnt limp once. Edit: My bad.
    • SoyCD
      SoyCD
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      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      xylere used to play a lot of SSS (although he switched to BSS lately: Size does matter - a career of a deepstack player) and is a hand judge on the SSS forum).

      Your play might be more suited to BSS than SSS. Although 20/10 stats arent really good for either. If you arent limping a lot I guess the high VPIP comes from your very very very high SB/BB values. 44% vpip from the SB is very high and 61% fold SB to steal and 59% fold BB to steal are very high. These values should be more around 80-90% for the BB and 85-95% from the SB.

      There are some very tight players out there - but this has its good reasons. One of our German SSS/BSS coaches played SSS with 6-7 stats and plays BSS with 10/7 stats but is winning over 15-30k a month. Of course this doesnt mean that looser play cant also be highly effective - but not with a SSS.

      Try to stop cold calling from the SB/BB and get your VPIP down. I also suggest visiting SSS coachings and posting hands in the discussion forum :)

      Best regards,
      SoyCD


      (edit: the new graph already looks a lot better with much closer VPIP/PFR values and a tighter VPIP - although still very high SB values)
    • c4ught
      c4ught
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      Joined: 14.02.2008 Posts: 58
      Originally posted by SoyCD
      xylere used to play a lot of SSS (although he switched to BSS lately: Size does matter - a career of a deepstack player) and is a hand judge on the SSS forum).

      Your play might be more suited to BSS than SSS. Although 20/10 stats arent really good for either. If you arent limping a lot I guess the high VPIP comes from your very very very high SB/BB values. 44% vpip from the SB is very high and 61% fold SB to steal and 59% fold BB to steal are very high. These values should be more around 80-90% for the BB and 85-95% from the SB.

      There are some very tight players out there - but this has its good reasons. One of our German SSS/BSS coaches played SSS with 6-7 stats and plays BSS with 10/7 stats but is winning over 15-30k a month. Of course this doesnt mean that looser play cant also be highly effective - but not with a SSS.

      Try to stop cold calling from the SB/BB and get your VPIP down. I also suggest visiting SSS coachings and posting hands in the discussion forum :)

      Best regards,
      SoyCD


      (edit: the new graph already looks a lot better with much closer VPIP/PFR values and a tighter VPIP - although still very high SB values)
      Thanks for linking the blog have read it all. He plays looser than me :D

      Anyway after all the advice etc i have played 1k hands since making this post.


      There it is. I tightened my ass up and my graph shows just under $14 profit over the 1000 hands. Have another day off tomorrow so hoping to play another 1000 hands or get close again.

      Cheers for the advice guys. Is it worth posting hands when playing SSS? In the hands section?
    • SoyCD
      SoyCD
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      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      Originally posted by c4ught

      Thanks for linking the blog have read it all. He plays looser than me :D

      Anyway after all the advice etc i have played 1k hands since making this post.


      There it is. I tightened my ass up and my graph shows just under $14 profit over the 1000 hands. Have another day off tomorrow so hoping to play another 1000 hands or get close again.

      Cheers for the advice guys. Is it worth posting hands when playing SSS? In the hands section?
      Hey c4ught,

      Believe it or not 6.88 bb/100 is a good value for SSS. You were running insanely hot earlier - but especially in upper limits you are heading for a major down with such loose play. Your values are already looking a lot better - especially the SB values.

      And yes I would 100% posts your SSS hands in the SSS section. I would also read other peoples hands and try to comment on those - its probably one of the best tools for improving your game and bringing it to a new level.