[NL2-NL10] Folding overpair to c/r

    • maheepsangari
      maheepsangari
      Gold
      Joined: 08.06.2010 Posts: 2,163
      Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players

      Hero (MP): $11.14 (111.4 bb) 35/29/3.0/16.7/0/18
      CO: $14.19 (141.9 bb)
      BTN: $10 (100 bb)
      SB: $12.39 (123.9 bb)
      BB: $10.51 (105.1 bb) 18/11/6.0/0.0/0/29
      UTG: $11.58 (115.8 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is MP with K K
      UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.40, 3 folds, BB calls $0.30

      Flop: ($0.85) 4 4 5 (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $0.60, BB raises to $2, Hero folds

      I couldn't really imagine how I would go about playing this hand hereon which is why I decided to fold. Could we discuss some lines that we could take here.

      His Check/Raise is definitely quite an aggressive move but I don't really think he would have a 4 cause I really can't imagine him calling me with a 4x pre-flop from BB after I open raised. If he has a 44 or a 55 then he'd definitely slow play here so I'm pretty sure he has none of that and I think this could be a good spot for him to bluff with a check/raise.

      So should I 3-Bet here or just call. 3-Bet might be a bit overboard and if he is bluffing then perhaps I should call and let him try one more time. Anyway I have position on him so I can control the game better.

      Ideally I think he'd have some PPs in his range which might fold to a 3-Bet on the flop. He could have suited connectors but would he really C/R me with them. Actually what do you think he'd be Check/Raising me here with and how should these situations be played out.


      Results: $2.05 pot ($0.09 rake)
      Final Board: 4 4 5
      Hero mucked K K and lost (-$1 net)
      BB mucked and won $1.96 ($0.96 net)
  • 7 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello maheepsangari,

      Giving up on such is most likely too weak. Cause he could easily have draws there and even worse PPs. Not that many 4x hands in his flatting range. :) Therefore I would decide either I want to keep his range wide and bluffs in the pot and Call or either just 3bet. That would mainly depend how I see him and if he is capable of betting the turn again.

      While it's somewhat draw you could as well just 3bet it and get it in. :)

      Best Regards.
    • maheepsangari
      maheepsangari
      Gold
      Joined: 08.06.2010 Posts: 2,163
      Yeah I know it was very weak to fold and 3-Bet was definitely an option. Like I said why I didn't play this hand is cause I didn't have a plan ready for the turn and river so lets discuss a few options.

      Say I call here, and a :club: falls on the turn.

      1. He 2nd Barrels and I call cause he could again bluff to represent a flush, besides I have a flush draw now.

      2. He checks. I check behind and try to induce another bluff on the river. If he doesn't bluff then I value bet the river.

      Say I call and a :club: doesn't fall on the turn.

      1. He 2nd Barrels. I have absolutely no idea what I'll do here.
      2. He checks. I could check behind to induce a bluff on the river. I could also value bet here but I doubt he'll call.
    • w4terman
      w4terman
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.04.2011 Posts: 757
      in my view you can not call this flop!
      you must 3bet for value and protection he could check raise you with bluffs draws or pocket pairs that you have dominated

      there is almost always some outs for the vilain! if you think you have the best hand you must bet for value and protection


      also if you have a hud or some information about the villian will help a lot here... but fold on this dry flop looks very passive
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      I thnk calling and keeping in all of his bluffs is fine, he will also pot/call the turn a decent percent of the time. ALso when we 3bet the flop he can fold 66-1010 which is obviously a disaster, but when we just call he will expect to have the best hand. We also have the Kc so not overly worried about clubs atm.
    • maheepsangari
      maheepsangari
      Gold
      Joined: 08.06.2010 Posts: 2,163
      Originally posted by maheepsangari
      Yeah I know it was very weak to fold and 3-Bet was definitely an option. Like I said why I didn't play this hand is cause I didn't have a plan ready for the turn and river so lets discuss a few options.

      Say I call here, and a :club: falls on the turn.

      1. He 2nd Barrels and I call cause he could again bluff to represent a flush, besides I have a flush draw now.

      2. He checks. I check behind and try to induce another bluff on the river. If he doesn't bluff then I value bet the river.

      Say I call and a :club: doesn't fall on the turn.

      1. He 2nd Barrels. I have absolutely no idea what I'll do here.
      2. He checks. I could check behind to induce a bluff on the river. I could also value bet here but I doubt he'll call.
      Could you please help me with these situations and tell me if I'd be right to play them this way?
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      I disagree that we should check if a club comes on the turn, I definitely think it should be a clear value bet. He will continue with alot of pairs still, with all of his straight draws with a club, even pure bluffs that now turned a club, KQsc etc.

      If no club falls and he keeps betting then we can keep calling, we still beat THE VAST MAJORITY OF HIS RANGE.

      If no club falls and he checks then we should definitely bet, he will still call us with draws and pocket pairs, so it is a clear value bet.
    • maheepsangari
      maheepsangari
      Gold
      Joined: 08.06.2010 Posts: 2,163
      Originally posted by pleno1
      I disagree that we should check if a club comes on the turn, I definitely think it should be a clear value bet. He will continue with alot of pairs still, with all of his straight draws with a club, even pure bluffs that now turned a club, KQsc etc.

      If no club falls and he keeps betting then we can keep calling, we still beat THE VAST MAJORITY OF HIS RANGE.

      If no club falls and he checks then we should definitely bet, he will still call us with draws and pocket pairs, so it is a clear value bet.
      Hmm. ok. Thanks for the inputs. I'll try to incorporate them in my game next time I face this situation.