Looking for advice from micro grinders who dont use a hud.

    • UlverHead
      UlverHead
      Basic
      Joined: 14.01.2011 Posts: 4
      Hello there
      Lurker for sometime but decided to change that.

      A little bit about my poker profile.

      I played for months on varius ongame skins clearing bonuses from the 3-10 $ dons.I was breakeven slightly looser but 500$ per month was great for me.

      Then I realised that I wasnt improving + the rake was usually quite high and decided to play on pokerstars and start fresh again.

      I messed around with fifty50's up to the 7$ level, with meh results.
      I lost some money in cash games forgetting about brm.Then I did a small challenge for myslef, played about 800 0.25c 45 mans with a roi of around 57%.

      It was great to find a game that I am good at but it was very time consuming and decided not to move up for now.
      I'd like to state that I improved my multi tabling skills and played comfortably 18-20 at a time.

      Then I decided to swich to cash games since it is more flexible time wise.
      I bought blackrain79's book to study and it really helped me a lot.

      I use a 9 year old laptop,which unfortunately can't handle huds.I tried both trials of hem and pt3 with no success.When I m comfortable I'll buy a new one and a hud but for now this is my only choice to play online poker.

      I keep track of my results manually though.
      So, my first month on cash games I played around 127.000 hands at 2nl 12-14 tabling without a hud and made aprox 196 $

      I didnt move up and made a cashout to please myself.
      I was glad that I was a profitable player over an ok sample.
      I started again playing 2nl with the intension to move up when I have 40-50 bi for 5nl.

      My question is,how far can I go without the use of a hud? My aim is to get to 10nl and stay there for a while.Are there any profitable grinders at 10nl that they dont use huds?

      I'd like to say again that I usually play 12-14 tables at a time.(not too little not too much)

      Any suggestions are much apreciated.

      Take care all.
  • 10 replies
    • 1z2x3y
      1z2x3y
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.01.2010 Posts: 67
      Hello UlverHead

      Please ignore my Bronze status, as i was playing poker for 2 years before i found & joined PokerStrategy.com, so i only have 1 poker client that i have connected with PokerStrategy & i dont play on that platform every month hence my status.

      I also play PokerStars platform, and i have never used a HUD in my life, i prefer to use the natural brain, i take notes on all players I.E, thier range, position & stack size plus stage of tournament ( if tourny ).

      However i do not play any more than 4 at a time.

      So in answer to your question, it is possible to play any limit without a HUD successfully, but not high limits in a massive volume, however you could play 4 CFR games at any level without a HUD.

      But if you wish to play the 10 -14 games in CFR you will need a HUD for your reads, just not possible to track that many players at any buy in.

      You would probably win more money if you just played 4 CFR at any level for a month & took notes, than what you would if you played 10 - 14 CFR games.
    • UlverHead
      UlverHead
      Basic
      Joined: 14.01.2011 Posts: 4
      Hey 1z2x3y

      Thanks for your response.
      The reason I'm asking is because I found that at least at 2nl you can profitably mass table without a hud.I just wonder until what level is this possible.I'll take a shot at 5nl but I am a little worried about 10nl.

      I agree with you that with less tables might be more profitable(and improve the game), but I just get bored very easy with less than 8 tables.I play FR btw.I found that 12 tables is magic amount to keep the action going for me.
    • 1z2x3y
      1z2x3y
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.01.2010 Posts: 67
      Hi UlverHead

      you are most welcome,

      at low CFR if you use a strategy, say MSS or BSS then you could play 50 tables if it is what you want.

      But it sounds to me that you like the action more than anything else.

      I would suggest you hide yourself from the search feature 1st on limits ( any limit ) but especially anything above 5nl, due to if a player see's you mass multi tabling on these limits there going to exploit you like taking candy from a kid.

      Also you will find it hard on 10nl and above trying to play any strategy of MSS or BSS straight forwardly ( you will have to mix it up ) to keep them guessing.

      Rember TIGHT is RIGHT on really low CFR 2cnl & 5cnl because people will call with any draws what so ever on those limits, in fact the only way to crush 2cnl is by playing TIGHT not T.A.G because you will get called still, just have to play the 3x, 4x raise game only & do not bluff on that buy-in, it's super boring, time consuming but highly effective. It is a game of patience.

      From your attitude i believe you will be a profitable player at higher CFR, just remeber to use 100% BRM, i think this is the weak point for you.
    • ThatGuyMatt
      ThatGuyMatt
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.12.2010 Posts: 3,758
      Hey UlverHead,

      I haven't played Poker without a HUD for a very long time, if you was playing just 1-2 tables it would be easy to play without one, but as you're playing 12 tables, the advantages of a HUD would be well worth investing in a new Laptop ;)

      A HUD has helped me out in many situations playing just 4 tables at NL6 & NL10, you can progress through the stakes without a HUD by all means, but it will be alot more difficult when most of the players will also be using them on you.

      As you don't have a HUD I'd suggest that you try to take as many notes as possible as this is key to beating the limits imo.

      Continue to play and if you are getting a nice Profit, withdraw some of your Roll and spend it on a Laptop, you can get real cheap ones these days that are incredibly quick, or even a second hand one would do. You can also see the Laptop as a token of the hard work you have put into Poker, so when you get down, look at the laptop "Poker paid for that, I can do this" and it will also motivate you to win more nice gifts for yourself :)
    • UlverHead
      UlverHead
      Basic
      Joined: 14.01.2011 Posts: 4
      Hello guys
      Thanks for your time

      1z2x3y
      Thanks for the tip,I will definitely do it.
      As for the brm, I will try it in a very conservative way.(at least 40-50 bi for the next level)

      As I said I played around 127k hands at 2nl and I'm gonna play around that much this month.Many will say that is a waste of time to play that many hands at nano limits but I want to have solid facts that I beat the limit.(no cashouts this time,just moving up) + it boosts my confidence.:)


      MattDenness
      Thanks for your insight man
      I think I will move to 5nl 9-12 tabling when bankroll allows me,and take it easy at 10nl and above(4-6 tables)

      I will surely invest in a new setup and a hud when my finances allow me.I realize how important is a hud nowadays.Even though I feel that my game is pretty solid (TAG style),I understand that a hud will help me up my winrate and avoid difficult spots.
    • andreibalint
      andreibalint
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2009 Posts: 872
      Have no clue about cash games, but for SNGs HUD is less relevant, you can probaly play even high stakes without them (of course with notes on players, table selection, remembering names, etc...)
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      Hi there UlverHead, hope all is well with you? :)

      As to your question, I have played micros for 4+ years and I an assure you I have made lots of profit from them without HUD. Howver, on the flipside, I am also sure I would have made more with one.

      Here's my take on it.
      I eat nl2 and nl4 for a snack wih a winrate of around 15bb/100 or so on FR; have done for years. Fine, nice brag guy.

      I have developed a 'feel' for players and can tell a lot of the time whther I am beat or not just by reads. ok, nice brag guy.

      I you aren't up to that level I will eat you if you have no HUD, as no doubt I would get eaten if I played higher without one.

      So, as suggested, try your best to get a machinetha will support a HUD, it really is the way to go.

      Oh and if you read that X plays with no HUD and crushes high stakes...believe it and write it off as the anomaly that it is.

      Why give up an advantage if it's avoidable?

      Just my take on it is all and I've left out a lot, likely.


      Have fun,

      Mal.
    • FuzZziiLiito
      FuzZziiLiito
      Basic
      Joined: 13.03.2012 Posts: 7
      Your a degenerate gambler!!! :D

      It sounds like its action you crave.Learn Omaha.If its action your after.

      Secondly on a serious note buy a HUD!
    • fruitcake1
      fruitcake1
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.10.2010 Posts: 61
      long as your winning you don't need a HUD at any level, most overated. I use it is to keep track of win/loss etc. Great to look up which hands R most profitable and such.

      play the PS zoom tables, your on equal playing field there.
      start at the bottom

      HUD's can make your play even worse if u base all your action on stats.
    • ArkhamAsylum
      ArkhamAsylum
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.09.2011 Posts: 527
      If you are playing zoom tables be sure to be note taking on people you bank on running into. Not doing so will start putting you in spots you may not like.

      I try to freeze zoom every so often and just write something brief to the point, and come back the next day etc etc and see what notes pop back up. This shows me the career zoom players = watch out in some cases.

      On the HUD point, José Maria Macedo said he never used to use one xD and look how trustworthy he turned out to be. Google the name if you don't know the player hehehe. Pokerstrategy has a sweet deal at the moment 25 dollars for Holdem manager 2, only buy if actually play a lot and are making a go of poker.

      As others have stated I like it to monitor my stats. Take care.