Poker is not what it used to be

    • Dykiller
      Dykiller
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.02.2008 Posts: 167
      Poker is not what is used to be.

      I have been playing poker for a while. the major part of my "career" is 12 table NL200 on various poker sites with different screennames. I will play as high as NL-PL600 with fewer tables. I mainly play NLHE and PLO like everyone.

      First and foremost, poker used to be fun. People played online like they would play with a bunch of friend at home with a beer at hand. Well my friends, not anymore. Pokersite competition is almost non-existant, and almost every poker player online play ABC poker. Not only the regs, but the recreational poker player. People learned how to play tight, and it completely killed the game. I mean EVERYONE.

      The average VPIP for table a Pstars is what, around 13% 9handed? This is ridiculous, 13 hands out of 100 will see the flop. Considering you play about 65 hands an hour on a table, you will see the flop 13 time every HOUR and a HALF of play. Not only that, but seeing the flop doesn't mean you are involved in the hand, far from it. And it doesn't mean the hand will go to showdown.

      Online sites love this so much, people will play up to 24 tables at one time to fight boredom and rake in more hands, making little to none profit. You don't need to start posting your awesome winning graph, I get that point.

      As a general rule of thumb, in my career I found out that my winnings where pretty much at par with the money the poker room raked from me. If I made 1K, the room made another 1K of my back. If I make 500$, they made roughly 500$ with rake. We are getting raped but we are loving or VPP. Loyalty program is the dumbest thing and is part of what ruined poker.

      I foresee Holdem losing tons of follower drasticly moving toward PLO. The same thing will happen with PLO. Squeeze the lemon until the last drop. It has been what 10 years since the poker craze went off? In 10 more years there is no way there will be 250,000 players at peak hours on PS.

      Discuss.
  • 67 replies
    • ArkhamAsylum
      ArkhamAsylum
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.09.2011 Posts: 527
      What happened was people saw poker as magical land where if you try your hardest you will win, and they kept pouring money into it, thinking they were going to be phil ivey.

      They got a reality check when fulltilt went down, they saw players like Erik Lindgren who was supposedly on all the tv programs and wealthy from poker actually only surviving because he got sponsorship of 250k a month from fulltilt. Now he is broke.

      Who will ever like that reality more than the dream before full tilt. Websites are feeling it too, you look at the amount of pros cut from rosters and you can see they had to do some trimming too to stay competitive.

      I think recreational players don't trust sites anymore and left, we now have people who know the game and it is a blood bath :f_p: .

      So will poker survive, yes I think it will, but the hype around it coupled with a world recession has taken the glamour away from it. People now see sponsored players paid to project a certain lifestyle as less reality and more fiction.
    • Dykiller
      Dykiller
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.02.2008 Posts: 167
      Just like Bellandre video this week. I think I saw it on pokerstrategy newsfeed. When he lost 100K$ on poker after dark cash game. Then shanna hiatt tells him "Your done for the week" and he's like "Done for the week??? (I just lost all of my bankroll money on this cash game). Simple fact is there not a single poker player out there that is rolled for these game.

      They are backed by pokerrooms, people see this and dream of big pots. We all know how poker players always talk about bad beats but how much money they make. I don't hear alot of player talking about how they suck out big but in the end lose tons of money with Poker.

      back to the original post, It just seems that today poker is down to TPTK-2pair vs 3of a kind push on flop. You lose some, you win some. How boring is that. Pokertracker and HM2 did their part on ruining the game. How many stupid stats does one need. There is so many stats it is ridiculous, you even need pop-up windows to see more stats. Players are like robot, brainwashed by T.V. publicity. They dream of the WSOP main event. 10K buy-in. Back in the day this was reserved for a select group of people, hardcore gamblers(because lets face it, poker was way more about gambling back in the days and less mathematics). with a playing field of about 70 players for a main event. I don't think anyone with a stack of cash was even aware of the WSOP ME. (millionnaire businessmen).

      nowadays the WSOP ME has 7000+ players. 99% of them don't really have 10K to spare. When I say don"t really have, I mean it will hurt them more to lose the 10K than the good it will bring them making an additionnal 10K.

      I hardly play live because the casino is quite a ride from my house. But the last time I went, it was damn boring. Players are all big shot in they're head. player 5/10 is a big deal, They always speak out loud what they think you had after they folded but they are always wrong. The poker faces. I mean, lets get a drink, I'll buy you one, have fun.

      I don't remember in what book I read the evolution of a poker player's thinking fall belong these lines

      What do I have.
      What does he think I have.
      What does he think I think he have.

      Ya maybe your taking it a bit too far, be honest, and if not, try to ask yourself this question while 24 tabling. ooh, shinny VPP
    • JimC6
      JimC6
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.04.2011 Posts: 458
      ok now i'm depressed.
    • DeLau
      DeLau
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.01.2009 Posts: 1,606
      No money in poker. Everyone's solid.
    • TheMoment
      TheMoment
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.12.2011 Posts: 215
      you are all just making excuses.

      sorry


      EDIT: Well, probably all facts are right, but you should understand that if there are 0.0000001% edge, you can allways make millions of poker.
    • Alficor1
      Alficor1
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2010 Posts: 7,291
      Originally posted by Dykiller
      Just like Bellandre video this week. I think I saw it on pokerstrategy newsfeed. When he lost 100K$ on poker after dark cash game. Then shanna hiatt tells him "Your done for the week" and he's like "Done for the week??? (I just lost all of my bankroll money on this cash game). Simple fact is there not a single poker player out there that is rolled for these game.

      They are backed by pokerrooms, people see this and dream of big pots. We all know how poker players always talk about bad beats but how much money they make. I don't hear alot of player talking about how they suck out big but in the end lose tons of money with Poker.

      back to the original post, It just seems that today poker is down to TPTK-2pair vs 3of a kind push on flop. You lose some, you win some. How boring is that. Pokertracker and HM2 did their part on ruining the game. How many stupid stats does one need. There is so many stats it is ridiculous, you even need pop-up windows to see more stats. Players are like robot, brainwashed by T.V. publicity. They dream of the WSOP main event. 10K buy-in. Back in the day this was reserved for a select group of people, hardcore gamblers(because lets face it, poker was way more about gambling back in the days and less mathematics). with a playing field of about 70 players for a main event. I don't think anyone with a stack of cash was even aware of the WSOP ME. (millionnaire businessmen).

      nowadays the WSOP ME has 7000+ players. 99% of them don't really have 10K to spare. When I say don"t really have, I mean it will hurt them more to lose the 10K than the good it will bring them making an additionnal 10K.

      I hardly play live because the casino is quite a ride from my house. But the last time I went, it was damn boring. Players are all big shot in they're head. player 5/10 is a big deal, They always speak out loud what they think you had after they folded but they are always wrong. The poker faces. I mean, lets get a drink, I'll buy you one, have fun.

      I don't remember in what book I read the evolution of a poker player's thinking fall belong these lines

      What do I have.
      What does he think I have.
      What does he think I think he have.

      Ya maybe your taking it a bit too far, be honest, and if not, try to ask yourself this question while 24 tabling. ooh, shinny VPP
      Wtf did i just read..
    • TheMoment
      TheMoment
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.12.2011 Posts: 215
      Originally posted by Alficor1
      Originally posted by Dykiller
      Just like Bellandre video this week. I think I saw it on pokerstrategy newsfeed. When he lost 100K$ on poker after dark cash game. Then shanna hiatt tells him "Your done for the week" and he's like "Done for the week??? (I just lost all of my bankroll money on this cash game). Simple fact is there not a single poker player out there that is rolled for these game.

      They are backed by pokerrooms, people see this and dream of big pots. We all know how poker players always talk about bad beats but how much money they make. I don't hear alot of player talking about how they suck out big but in the end lose tons of money with Poker.

      back to the original post, It just seems that today poker is down to TPTK-2pair vs 3of a kind push on flop. You lose some, you win some. How boring is that. Pokertracker and HM2 did their part on ruining the game. How many stupid stats does one need. There is so many stats it is ridiculous, you even need pop-up windows to see more stats. Players are like robot, brainwashed by T.V. publicity. They dream of the WSOP main event. 10K buy-in. Back in the day this was reserved for a select group of people, hardcore gamblers(because lets face it, poker was way more about gambling back in the days and less mathematics). with a playing field of about 70 players for a main event. I don't think anyone with a stack of cash was even aware of the WSOP ME. (millionnaire businessmen).

      nowadays the WSOP ME has 7000+ players. 99% of them don't really have 10K to spare. When I say don"t really have, I mean it will hurt them more to lose the 10K than the good it will bring them making an additionnal 10K.

      I hardly play live because the casino is quite a ride from my house. But the last time I went, it was damn boring. Players are all big shot in they're head. player 5/10 is a big deal, They always speak out loud what they think you had after they folded but they are always wrong. The poker faces. I mean, lets get a drink, I'll buy you one, have fun.

      I don't remember in what book I read the evolution of a poker player's thinking fall belong these lines

      What do I have.
      What does he think I have.
      What does he think I think he have.

      Ya maybe your taking it a bit too far, be honest, and if not, try to ask yourself this question while 24 tabling. ooh, shinny VPP
      Wtf did i just read..
      probably proof that God doesn't exist
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,068
      but let's face it - we ourselves also make poker be such as it is now :) we ourselves play tight, we use stats and so on :) are you doing something to make it like it was before (play loose, drunk and don't caring about strategy) ?
    • Dykiller
      Dykiller
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.02.2008 Posts: 167
      Originally posted by SPeedFANat1c
      but let's face it - we ourselves also make poker be such as it is now :) we ourselves play tight, we use stats and so on :) are you doing something to make it like it was before (play loose, drunk and don't caring about strategy) ?
      I have to admit I don't. This post isn't about pointing finger or blaming anyone. It is just a subject of discussion. I personnally think that Loyalty programs have been the main cause of this downfall. I know they have been around since almost the beginning, but since players felt they could make more money play millions of hands and getting paid rakeback over a DEALT method than actually making money beating your opponent. And I have to admit I was one of them people raking wayyy to much hand and putting to much time in those software to make the biggest payout every months. Some month I would lose 1K$ but made more than twice that in Rakeback.

      The system is broken for the players, and the fun factor is barely there.
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      And my dick is not what it used to be 10 years ago, but there's not much that we can do but to enjoy it while it's still working.
    • vmarqui
      vmarqui
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.01.2010 Posts: 4,816
      Originally posted by NightFrostaSS
      And my dick is not what it used to be 10 years ago, but there's not much that we can do but to enjoy it while it's still working.
      pretty much that
    • lynius
      lynius
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.01.2011 Posts: 382
      Fortunately we have ego and lack of knowledge.

      So we have more tight players. Do we have any less bad players after the flop? or the turn?

      It's more difficult to harvest, but there are still shards of edge to pick up.
    • wnbMG
      wnbMG
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.04.2011 Posts: 586
      EDIT: Well, probably all facts are right, but you should understand that if there are 0.0000001% edge, you can allways make millions of poker.

      sorry, but u are wrong :(
      there is rake :(
    • Dykiller
      Dykiller
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.02.2008 Posts: 167
      Originally posted by NightFrostaSS
      And my dick is not what it used to be 10 years ago, but there's not much that we can do but to enjoy it while it's still working.
      So is your brain.
    • Dykiller
      Dykiller
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.02.2008 Posts: 167
      Originally posted by lynius

      It's more difficult to harvest, but there are still shards of edge to pick up.
      I am aware of the edge being still there. And if you wonder, yes, I still make money playing online. I don`t play on a site linked to pokerstrategy, only to have more of an edge.
      but this post is about what it used to be, more about the fun factor than the sideline job of grinding.
    • bradomurder
      bradomurder
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.10.2008 Posts: 1,329
      life sux balls for sure, just imagine we could be out there having a blast working 40 hours a week in a cafe/office/building or whatever. Instead we're all forced to choose our own hours and work from home playing a game.

      but you're right the games are tighter preflop
    • Dykiller
      Dykiller
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.02.2008 Posts: 167
      Originally posted by bradomurder
      life sux balls for sure, just imagine we could be out there having a blast working 40 hours a week in a cafe/office/building or whatever. Instead we're all forced to choose our own hours and work from home playing a game.

      but you're right the games are tighter preflop
      Giving the fact you play NL25 I will assume when you say 'we' you are excluding yourself.
    • bradomurder
      bradomurder
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.10.2008 Posts: 1,329
      yes, I realised this after i wrote it and couldn't be fucked rewording, point stands, anyway i'm not trying to dig at you i'm just saying put it in perspective

      and about live poker, you say it's all idiots who think they're great, isn't that what you say is missing from online poker?
    • Targetme
      Targetme
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.05.2009 Posts: 1,888
      i play loose, drunk and don't caring about strategy all the time