[NL2-NL10] Nl4; Qj Tp <> Db

    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      IPoker, $0.02/$0.04 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 4 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      BB: $4.39 (109.7 bb)
      CO: $1.94 (48.5 bb)
      Hero (BTN): $5 (125 bb)
      SB: $5.26 (131.5 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BTN with J Q
      CO folds, Hero raises to $0.12, SB folds, BB calls $0.08

      Flop: ($0.26) 4 J 6 (2 players)
      BB bets $0.08, Hero calls $0.08

      Turn: ($0.42) 4 (2 players)
      BB bets $0.42, Hero calls $0.42

      River: ($1.26) K (2 players)
      BB bets $1.26, Hero calls $1.26

      Results: $3.78 pot ($0.25 rake)
      Final Board: 4 J 6 4 K
      BB showed Q K and won $3.53 ($1.65 net)
      Hero mucked J Q and lost (-$1.88 net)

      Opponent's stats:
      VP/PFR/AF/DonkbetFlop/WTS/hands 65/18/2.3/40(10)/26/60

      Is this standard or no? I have not seen him donkbetting the turn or river up until now and the betsize is somewhat big on both the turn and river.
  • 7 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Avatars91,

      Most likely I would still fold it on the river vs pot size Bet. :) No need for hero-calls there while he could even have 4x there which is playing this way.

      Best Regards.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Is this a close spot?

      I would definitely not mind folding but calling seems like an attractive option as well – if we call a potsize bet on the turn thinking that our opponent bluffs often enough for us to make a +EV call, then a fold to another potsize bet on such a river card is by no means an easy one. Our opponent is bad, and he might interpret this high card as a scare card even though we know that his play with most Kx hands up until this street would make little if any sense, thus making us rather inclined to find that call.
    • angalius
      angalius
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.11.2011 Posts: 304
      I dont like your flop call giving him a chance to lead the pot, I would 3-bet hes flop raise and revalue my hand on the turn
    • rogervieri
      rogervieri
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.12.2010 Posts: 1,034
      I would re-raise villain on the flop; if he had like 2-pair or a set, he would probably play check-raise, if stead of bet/call.

      His $0.08 in a $0.26 pot seems more like a blockbet; you as the pre-flop aggressor should claim your pot more aggressively and re-raise him to at least $0.24 on the flop.

      If villain continues to donk potsize bets, then i would give up on the turn and fold there.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Well, why do you want to hero-call while you don't even know him? You have invested into the pot only small amount of money and now have to hero-call 2x more? While he could even have traps there and strong hands. And of course maybe even better Jx are possible as KJ or whatsoever.

      Plus as you said yourself you haven't seen him donk-betting like that earlier. What made you think that he could even be bluffing then?
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      All that you say is true. But in that case I do not understand why you do not suggest a fold directly on the turn. I've heard numerous times about the rule that you have to be very inclined to call a river bet if you decide to call the turn in a way ahead-way behind situation. How is the situation on the river much different from the one on the turn once we call? Both bets are pot-sized and if we call the turn, thinking that we are ahead because our opponent is bluffing I can imagine our opponent to be barreling again on such a river card.

      So in this hand I can understand both the call turn, call river line, and the fold turn line. But I do not quite get why it makes sense to call the turn and fold the river.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      a) You put yourself into exactly such a spot where you Call the river where you might not even beat much.
      b) You haven't seen him earlier picking anything similar.
      c) Why do you want to Call a pot size Bet on the river while we don't know even much about the opponent. Against smaller bets we can of course argue about but against pot size we also have to have expectations that he is capable of bluffing. Because right now his Bet is polarized, either it's a made hand (beats you) or just pure bluff. But what could he even be bluffing there? He is never betting any weaker Jx this way.

      There is no such rule as always Call river if you Call the turn. If you even don't get good odds for a Call then why should you do that? He might over-bet, he might pot it, it's not always the case that you have to Call just because you called the turn.