888 Cheating ?

    • redskins1791
      redskins1791
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.10.2011 Posts: 6
      I play 4 different poker sites, and I have never seen so many bad beats as 888, this isnt me moaning about my bad luck, it happens to everyone.
      There will always be occassions where a bad player gets lucky on the river, but 888 really is getting beyond a joke, it happens way above the law of averages at 888.

      People will say it all evens out, but why do i never see so many bad beats, at PKR, Pokerstars, or william hill.
      On a personal note, have been playing double or nothing sit and go's and won money on 7 in a row, the last 3 I lost, all on the river, when i was miles ahead after the flop.
      Ive heard people comment that 888 set it up so bad players win sometimes to keep them interested, ive always laughed at that, but now i must admit, im starting to wonder.

      Im not the best player in the world, but if i get deep in a tournament, i want to lose fairly, by the law of averages, not because 888 decides.

      Anyone else agree about 888 ?, if they can tweek it, I wish they would alter it to a fairer system, because i really like the site.
  • 59 replies
    • luckygan2002
      luckygan2002
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.07.2011 Posts: 73
      Hey redskins,

      I've been playing at 888poker for more than a year now and I do agree with you (sometimes) but you also have to think it this way i guess (It's poker) There are possibilities that we can lose in a horible way but still I totally understand what you mean, and having AA at 888 is actually a horrible card lol. I've actually folded AA once and wanted to see what happens there and then a guy rasied 4 times the pot and the other guy called, i guess the flop was 4 7 6 , and then he raised again, the other guy went all in with QQ, the guy at first had 3 5 :( ( (Good thing i folded my AA) lol.
      What limit do you play at 888, Maybe this evening we could play together there at the cam tables.

      But whatever, i still think 888poker is one of the best sites out there and i enjoy playing it (Mainly the cam tables) :)

      Cheers
    • datsmahname
      datsmahname
      Global
      Joined: 23.11.2009 Posts: 1,366
      everything that can happen, however unlikely, will happen to someone eventually.

      with poker theres also some kind of "wtf tolerance" where people say wtf after varying amounts of unlikely events.

      Lets say we think about the next 4 times you get aces. Preflop in a HU pot you might have say 80% equity.
      • The odds of losing the first time is 20%.
      • The odds of losing the 2nd time given that you lost the first time is still 20%. Thinking otherwise is whats known as a gamblers fallacy.
      • The odds of losing both hands (given nothing) is only .2*.2= 4%.
      • The odds of losing the third hand given that you lost the previous two is still 20%.
      • The odds of losing 3 hands in a row (given nothing) is .2^3= 0.8%
      • The odds of losing the fourth hand given that you lost the previous three is still 20%.

      The take away points here are that:
      1) while losing consecutive hands is unlikely, it has no baring on the next hand AND
      2) its going to happen to someone, somewhere.. and occasionally it will happen all on one site.
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Couldn't disagree with this evidence more.

      Provide detail on exactly how 888 is defying this "law of averages"?

      Any sample size less than 4 million hands doesn't count.

      [/sarky tone]

      [reasonable tone]

      You are experiencing a couple of things:

      i. Variance

      losing AA v 72 will happen, and often - it isn't a lock. People will 2 outer you often enough. Sometimes multiple times in a 100 hands. Variance happens, learn to accept it - you will lose more often and worse than you can possibly imagine many times in a poker career.

      ii. Confirmation bias

      When you begin to think you're getting beaten an unreasonable amount, you will start to remember the beats more clearly (and on occasion start to anticipate those beats). This then confirms your assumption that there is a reason outside of variance in action, when in fact it is selective memory. This is how humans work, however humans struggle to deal with the reality of variance.

      iii. Entitlement tilt

      When you study and work at your game you start to expect that you will beat bad/terrible players as of right. This doesn't happen. Bad players get lucky, get a great run of cards the same way as you will. Over the 'long run' a more correct player will win, a poor player will lose. The long run can be extremely long.

      There are a ton of really good psychology articles on this site, use them. Also check out Jared Tendler's threads, as these contain many answers to the questions should be asking.

      BTW I have played at multiple sites over the years, I've played at 888.com for the best part of the last 3 months, and previously for periods up to 6 months, and have never felt or experienced anything different to any other site. I've never analysed any data, and I don't suspect I ever will, but trust that there are enough geeks out there that will, and if THEY start posting poker is rigged threads then I'll be worried.
    • LONGPLAY66
      LONGPLAY66
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.05.2009 Posts: 228
      i'm definitely of the opinion that "certain sites" appear to be manipulating things for higher earnings BUT having played at 888 for the last 2 years i found it to be about as honest a game as you are going to find online.
    • kiromanAAKK
      kiromanAAKK
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.10.2009 Posts: 4,022
      Those two hands have came on the same table one after another; so I have been cheated?

      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/foru/thread.php?postid=1029765#post1029765

      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/foru/thread.php?postid=1029791#post1029791

      that's poker mate, trust me! ;)
    • dailytear
      dailytear
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2011 Posts: 749
      Originally posted by Waiboy
      Any sample size less than 4 million hands doesn't count.

      I've never analysed any data, and I don't suspect I ever will, but trust that
      there are enough geeks out there that will, and if THEY start posting poker is
      rigged threads then I'll be worried.
      i agree with Waiboy
      have about 1.7 million hands on 888 in my db...
      geeky enough to do the analysis...
      however no intention whatsoever to do so when reaching 4 million

      look, we all felt it at some point, especially after another 50k hands break
      even stretch, sometimes even up to the point that ur getting it in pre with AA
      and u just know ur gonna lose, and u do, to some unsuited crap hand, over
      and over and over and over again... still, that's part of the game

      don't hate the player, don't hate the poker room, hate the game...

      cherish the love :heart:
    • Alieaz
      Alieaz
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2010 Posts: 69
      If you allow yourself to be ruled by illogical conclusions drawn from emotional responses to random events then maybe poker isn't for you....
    • philhellmutt
      philhellmutt
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.02.2011 Posts: 225
      This is just my opinion, so take it with a healthy dose of salt.

      Quite a few people have said that 888 is perhaps among the fishiest sites on the interwebz. In my experience I've seen a lot of silliness and ridiculous play there, even more than Party IMO. Far more limpers and callers. For this reason you'll see many more bad beats than sites like Stars, WH etc.

      A typical 888 2NL hand: You're holding QQ in MP and raise 12c against 2 limpers, you get 4 callers and the flop comes J62 rainbow. You bet and UTG calls with T6s, turn is a 4 you bet again and he calls. Then a lovely river when a T or a 6 hits. Worse players are more likely to call this flop and turn, so you tend to get more bad beats. Don't think I've seen a poker site where so many people can't find their fold button.

      My problem with 888 has been the inability to flop sets: over 8K hands I only flopped a set once every 16. Ridiculous.

      My tin foil hat theory for the day: I'm only playing with the free $8 so far. If I deposit my own money, expect more flopped sets lol... :D
    • VISHMASTER
      VISHMASTER
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.04.2011 Posts: 1,118
      Hi Redskins,

      Ive heard people comment that 888 set it up so bad players win sometimes to keep them interested, ive always laughed at that, but now i must admit, im starting to wonder.


      I had the same feeling when I heard this rumour, but If u want to find out yourself, just SharkScope the Losing players and u'll be surprised to see they have lost thousands of dollars in the long run. They got just lucky against you.

      Quite a few people have said that 888 is perhaps among the fishiest sites on the interwebz.


      This site is fishy. When I mean fishy, I not only mean the players but the site as a whole.
      ->The security is fishy (they don't allow u 2 create strong passwords)
      Its against their password policy :rage:
      ->The chat support has no fucking clue about what ur saying and replies with an automated message all the time.
      -> They take 3 whole days to reply to any e-mail you send (Which is an automated reply)
      -> And they disable your account when they want to verify your documents which takes around 23 years. (if ur lucky).

      So u have lot of reasons to move from this site . (Don't blame the variance) Good luck mate :s_thumbsup:
    • VISHMASTER
      VISHMASTER
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.04.2011 Posts: 1,118
      Originally posted by luckygan2002
      Hey redskins,

      i still think 888poker is one of the best sites out there and i enjoy playing it (Mainly the cam tables) :)

      Cheers
      They have the weakest security system in the history of online poker, and I would'nt even switch on my web cam when I'm logged in 888.
    • BObamaJr
      BObamaJr
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.01.2012 Posts: 232
      Their security system is fucked. They take 11 days to verify an account with completly clear images (compared to 5 hours for pokerstars) and I have heard from a friend who was clearly hacked yet refunded no money.

      Fucking corporate shits
    • VISHMASTER
      VISHMASTER
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.04.2011 Posts: 1,118
      Hi Bobama,
      I face the same issue now... It has been more than a week I think..

      Pacific poker banned me just like that.

      They could have atleast allowed me to play and blocking withdrawals untill they verify my documents.. They don't have a fucking brain.
    • VISHMASTER
      VISHMASTER
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.04.2011 Posts: 1,118
      Originally posted by BObamaJr
      Their security system is fucked. They take 11 days to verify an account with completly clear images (compared to 5 hours for pokerstars) and I have heard from a friend who was clearly hacked yet refunded no money.

      Fucking corporate shits
      They work with hackers mate. Thats why they don't allow us to create strong passwords. If we ask they say its against their password policy/business policy/bull shit. Forget about getting refunds. They hack their own player's accounts.
      Hopeless site.
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Originally posted by dailytear
      Originally posted by Waiboy
      Any sample size less than 4 million hands doesn't count.

      I've never analysed any data, and I don't suspect I ever will, but trust that
      there are enough geeks out there that will, and if THEY start posting poker is
      rigged threads then I'll be worried.
      i agree with Waiboy
      have about 1.7 million hands on 888 in my db...
      geeky enough to do the analysis...
      however no intention whatsoever to do so when reaching 4 million
      So soft. Get your grind on. :f_p:
    • darkod80
      darkod80
      Global
      Joined: 13.11.2008 Posts: 161
      omg ,I actually read all above :f_eek:
    • taavi1337
      taavi1337
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.05.2009 Posts: 2,920
      I suck out much more at 888 than on other poker sites, true story.

      Ongame, however, is rigged.
    • dailytear
      dailytear
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2011 Posts: 749
      Originally posted by taavi1337
      I suck out much more at 888 than on other poker sites, true story.
      i suck out more than anybody, but thats coz i know 1 of the pokergods. his name is Fritz. Fritz and i go way back. we used to play nintendo in kindergarten...

      cherish the love :heart:
    • VISHMASTER
      VISHMASTER
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.04.2011 Posts: 1,118
      Lol.. I can see where this is going :coolface:
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,297
      888 is DEFFO rigged :f_biggrin:

      Just my 2 cents.....