[NL2-NL10] NL4; SH: KTo 3bet

    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      IPoker, $0.02/$0.04 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      BB: $4.02 (100.5 bb)
      UTG: $4.39 (109.7 bb)
      MP: $5 (125 bb)
      CO: $6.14 (153.5 bb)
      Hero (BTN): $6.01 (150.3 bb)
      SB: $3.90 (97.5 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BTN with K T
      UTG folds, MP raises to $0.12, CO folds, Hero raises to $0.44, 2 folds, MP calls $0.32

      Flop: ($0.94) A T 4 (2 players)
      MP bets $0.47, Hero calls $0.47

      Turn: ($1.88) T (2 players)
      MP bets $0.94, Hero raises to $5.10 and is all-in, MP folds

      Results: $3.76 pot ($0.25 rake)
      Final Board: A T 4 T
      MP mucked and lost (-$1.85 net)
      Hero mucked K T and won $3.51 ($1.66 net)

      Opponent's stats: VP/PFR/AF/DonkbetFlop/Foldto3Bet/WTS/hands 69/26/1.6/69(13)/0(3)/31/77

      Preflop: Now that I look at the hand, I probably should not have 3bet because he does not fold preflop and on top of that he also donkbets many flops + his WTS is somewhat on the higher end. Although I could be convinced that because he donkbets so often I might try to raise his donkbets on some of the flops, provided it's not spew, of course.

      Postflop: This is the reason I posted this hand: flop play. It's a 3bet pot and his range preflop probably includes broadways, AT-AK, medium PPs – something like that. Would he donkbet the flop with a monster? That I would doubt, but then again it would seem that he donkbets the most part of his range anyway. So I can't discount Ax hands as neither can I discount some Tx hands or QQ/JJ even maybe. That said, is it worth calling the flop? Maybe this is a spot where a raise is possible?
  • 8 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Avatars91,

      Preflop: 3betting is very bad here, especially when his main calling range will be that beats your KT hardly and very often dominated.

      As played
      Postflop: Seems to be fine, not much to comment. I wouldn't pick any different line, we have to protect on the turn. Neither doesn't make sense from his side to donk like that.

      Best Regards.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Would you approve of 3betting Ax hands against him? SCs?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      Would you approve of 3betting Ax hands against him? SCs?
      Ax are hardly dominated, so depends what kind of Ax hands. ;) But rather if I would be 3betting then mainly those hands which ain't dominated as SCs.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      When I 3Bet hands like KT, Kxs, Ax from BU <> CO the reason I do it is of course not for value but for fold equity (+blocker effect). I see, for example, TwiceT making frequent 3Bets with these kind of hands from BU <> CO.

      That said, provided that I am not up against a complete calling station is a 3bet with these hands at least not considerable? For the very reason that our opponents can call with hands that dominate us, we can expect those hands not to hit since we already have an Ace or a King, thus we should have more fold equity on the flop. Provided our opponents can fold I think that it is not that bad to 3Bet such hands. With caution, of course. Or is there any other special reason you don't advocate this play for me (lack of experience / skill)?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Just because someone is using the line for some reason and BUvsCO doesn't mean that you always can use it yourself. You have a specific spot where where you practically get called mainly from dominated hands. I would even expect him to Call with KJ easily. So therefore not a huge fan of 3betting vs such opponents. Cause you said you are doing it for fold equity but if the guy ain't folding preflop nor postflop then how you planning to play profitable the hand?

      Well, just cause we have the King or Ace doesn't mean that we can't hit both at the same time. Also, he could even be floating with just K high and you have to give up on the turn and practically would be against better King, the same for an Ace. The same amount of time how often you hit your set can this happen but in this case could also be the case that you could hit your T or whatsoever ever pair and just overplay with hit. With set you at least know that you are very often ahead.

      That's also why I wouldn't recommend watch every video you get in your hand, people just try to play the same way as coach does and don't even understand the reasons behind it why they are doing it. The profit from those hands as KT 3bet vs CO range comes from fold equity either preflop or we have the reason to think that he will easily fold postflop. But if the guy is a station then how do you plan to get rid of him? PLUS! The main case, he donks a lot. :) Will be really difficult for us to play the hand.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      I see your point, and you are completely right about this particular situation – I am not trying to deny that.

      It's just that you have left the impression that 3betting such hands as Ax Kx BU<>CO in general is a complete no-no. This hand / opponent is an example of when not to 3Bet with such hands. But surely, there is nothing wrong with a 3Bet with KT provided our opponent can fold preflop or postflop?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Nah, you can still 3bet them, especially I would do that vs unknown to find out how he adjusts, build up some image and so on. :)
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Thanks!