[NL2-NL10] NL5 3-handed 82s twopair IP

    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      Everest - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 3 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BB: $3.02
      Hero (BTN): $4.89
      SB: $5.03

      SB posts SB $0.03, BB posts BB $0.05

      Pre Flop: (pot: $0.08) Hero has 8:heart: 2:heart:

      Hero raises to $0.10, SB calls $0.07, BB calls $0.05
      minraise was a mis. actually, choosing to play this hand at all was a mistake
      in any case i hit twopair

      SB has 32/10/3af/83 hands, but has been playing pretty aggressively by donking potsize or close 67% (9) and keeping aggression. i have this showdown hand on him

      Everest - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BB: $12.09
      UTG: $4.92
      Hero (CO): $4.63
      BTN: $4.81
      SB: $22.09

      he is btn, sb is huge calling station

      SB posts SB $0.03, BB posts BB $0.05

      Pre Flop: (pot: $0.08) Hero has J:diamond: 8:diamond:

      fold, Hero raises to $0.16, BTN calls $0.16, SB calls $0.13, fold

      Flop: ($0.53, 3 players) 2:club: 6:club: 2:heart:
      SB checks, Hero checks, BTN bets $0.53, SB calls $0.53, fold

      Turn: ($1.59, 2 players) 4:diamond:
      SB checks, BTN bets $1.59, SB calls $1.59

      River: ($4.77, 2 players) J:spade:
      SB checks, BTN bets $2.53 and is all-in, SB calls $2.53

      BTN shows 7:club: 7:heart: (Two Pair, Sevens and Twos) (Pre 70%, Flop 80%, Turn 89%)
      SB shows 6:spade: A:heart: (Two Pair, Sixes and Twos) (Pre 30%, Flop 20%, Turn 11%)
      BTN wins $9.19


      the following seemed typical for him, think he maybe liked to attack these dry boards

      Everest - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      CO: $2.00
      Hero (BTN): $5.23
      SB: $4.30
      BB: $3.07
      UTG: $4.97

      SB posts SB $0.03, BB posts BB $0.05, CO posts DB $0.05

      Pre Flop: (pot: $0.13) Hero has 5:heart: A:diamond:

      fold, CO raises to $0.16, fold, SB calls $0.13, BB calls $0.11

      Flop: ($0.48, 3 players) 8:diamond: 4:club: 8:spade:
      SB bets $0.48, fold, fold

      SB wins $0.46


      Flop: ($0.30, 3 players) 8:spade: K:club: 2:diamond:
      SB bets $0.17, fold, Hero calls $0.17

      Turn: ($0.64, 2 players) J:club:
      SB bets $0.64, Hero calls $0.64

      River: ($1.92, 2 players) A:heart:
      SB bets $4.12 and is all-in, Hero tanks, tanks, tanks...

      i thought it looked more like a value line. on the other hand... well... dunno, there's not much he could (over)play there. more like nuts/air
  • 10 replies
    • Spungeh
      Spungeh
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.06.2011 Posts: 1,212
      A value line of what? JJ+, but then KK and JJ and AA is probably outta the picture...

      He seems like a complete moron, he calls straight up, so he has some form of low PP, maybe 88 or 22.. KK he would of re-raised, and any Ax hand i believe he would raise to, or definetly not 3 barrel it, to get lucky on the river.

      misclick.. get lucky.. so fold is outta the option, He bets 1/2 pot, you flat, he bets pot, you flat, he shoves all in you fold?

      Flop, why are you not 3 betting him here? He has Kx, PPs, may have a set, but most of the time you'll be good with 2pair, and you should be betting for value not flatting.. dont like this whole just calling business, as you put yourself into the position of making the hard call/fold on the river, whereas you should of taken it down on the flop or turn.

      as i would play it,

      Flop 3bet him here, to around 60c~
      Turn again I'd 3bet him, to 3x or even seriously consider a shove to get him of FD etc.. hes calling a 3x or a shove with Kx anyway.
      River A hits.. good hand, dont think he'd take this line with TQ so im pretty sure if he doesnt have AK, or a set your pretty sweet here.. but you shouldnt even get this far, you should beall in by now anyway or folded.

      As played

      Flop Dont like the flat, as said 3bet.
      Turn Fold, or 3bet
      River Fold to his shove

      Can you tell me why you took that line of just flatting every street? Slow playing? You more than likely have the nuts on the flop.




      Board: 2:diamond: 8:spade: K:club:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      BU     84.67%  84.66%   0.01% { 8h2h }
      SB     15.33%  15.33%   0.01% { 22+, A2s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }



      This is quiet a wide range, but your 85%~ ahead of his range, and even if he was abit nitted up.


      Board: 2:diamond: 8:spade: K:club:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      BU     81.65%  81.64%   0.01% { 8h2h }
      SB     18.35%  18.34%   0.01% { 22+, A2s+, AKo }



      And the very very nittest of it..


      Board: 2:diamond: 8:spade: K:club:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      BU     76.39%  76.39%   0.00% { 8h2h }
      SB     23.61%  23.61%   0.00% { 22+, AKs, AKo }



      So you should be trying to get it in on the flop... A set just isnt there and your always 75% favourite even when hes only got a 7% range.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Tomaloc,

      Flop: As long there ain't that many 2 pair combos in his range unless he is a very loose opponent who also could have something like K2 you can easily even raise the flop for value. He could have a lot of Kx hands in his range.

      As played
      Turn: Kind of close already. But for the given reason that you posted above I would just raise it right here and play for the stacks. As you have seen him couple of times potting with just TP and even with very weak TP then he could easily overplay his hand.

      As played
      River: Not much to do, I gues I would be for crying fold. :(

      Best Regards.
    • Spungeh
      Spungeh
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.06.2011 Posts: 1,212
      You would fold two pair from 1 bet? What? You really think KK is in his hand? :|
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Spungeh
      You would fold two pair from 1 bet? What? You really think KK is in his hand? :|
      Oh crap, somehow I just saw he has 2. :D
    • Spungeh
      Spungeh
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.06.2011 Posts: 1,212
      Originally posted by veriz
      Originally posted by Spungeh
      You would fold two pair from 1 bet? What? You really think KK is in his hand? :|
      Oh crap, somehow I just saw he has 2. :D
      Ill let you of then :D
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      well :D i was ready to snapcall a potsize bet, but then he surprised me with snapshove.

      this guy was not one of these "stack off any pair on flop" type of guy, he'd play "normally" too sometimes but then i could never get to see a showdown.
      in one (unfortunately) later hand i had tptk oop, bet two streets then checked to induce and he just checked behind his weak tp A4s. so there must have been some method to his madness, even though i couldn't figure it.

      i was a bit suspicious already because he deviated from his usual potsize bet on the flop.
      in any case i calldown because i just want to let him 3-barrel or whatever (no idea how often he is purebluffing, if he is) also i am in position so i can just bet myself if i have to. we're both snap-betting and snap-calling here.
      then, well, he just snapshoves the river? i think the bet timings are as polarized as his range (guess i should have included these "dynamics" on op) but does he need to overbet shove for 2x?

      in the end i put the ghosts together and folded my bottom twopair.
      felt like both a nit a good fold. i don't know what to say, sets/K8s/J8 type should be in his range, and why not KJ.
      i don't expect any of KK/JJ/AK/AJ/QT though.

      the question seems rather like if he has "air" often enough there to make it profitable, i don't think he's overbet shoving just as overplay so it's nuts/air imo. and i only have the worst nuts...
    • vonki
      vonki
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 6,091
      Hey!

      The hand was linked to me in a study group so I took a look.

      Originally posted by veriz
      Hello Tomaloc,

      Flop: As long there ain't that many 2 pair combos in his range unless he is a very loose opponent who also could have something like K2 you can easily even raise the flop for value. He could have a lot of Kx hands in his range.

      Best Regards.
      I have to say I disagree with raising the flop. Given the information we have, I think it's safe to make the assumption that SB's range is quite wide (esp given its a minraise and the BU vs SB spot), and on this dry Kxx board SB probably can't stand that much heat. I for one think it's better to flat the flop, allowing SB to continue aggression (as he has been said to do), with a much wider range (thus, getting value from his bluffs, which I think is the main part of his range on the flop). If he has Kx we can most likely still play for stacks anyway.

      Kind regards,
      vonki
    • fusionpk
      fusionpk
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,683
      Gonna have to +1 everything vonki said I think. Perfect analysis.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      The point out is very good and I do agree with that, with any set I would pick it. But why I would pick rather raise the flop and play my hand right there is cause:
      a) we have the bottom 2pairs - we don't want to see any overcard hop in and face exactly such a play, where we actually should be rather raising the turn and preparing to ship it on river.
      b) if we raise the turn, it will usually look a lot stronger -> might even make Kx hands to fold, especially if for example an Ace comes.
      c) so far we has shown from the hands above only made hands, if we think he has one then why don't we think that he can go broke right on the flop anyways.
      d) if he doesn't have the K he wont pay you much more anyways while we don't have the information on the guy that he also is bluffing into multiway pot like that. - hand #1 opponent had overpair, hand # 2 opponent could easily have a lot of PPs in his range which protects there.
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      nice discussion. keep it coming :D

      at least this way i don't feel that my horrible c-game spew session was just to finish 2.5 BI down :f_frown: