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From $5 to Infinity, a FL Blog...

    • Densyosh
      Densyosh
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.10.2009 Posts: 8,581
      Hi, I'm a french FL player.. =)
    • VirtuaGod
      VirtuaGod
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.02.2009 Posts: 514
      @fruktpuff THX, but it is going very slowly, i still have many leaks and rake really kills FL players winrate :f_mad:

      @poompah Thank you for the long post. You are right and i agree with you. I am not aggressive enough and am working on it. I am getting more aggressive in my play but i have to feel comfortable with it. But yes, i am getting more aggressive. I know that i have a lower win rate because of it (lacking aggression). I'm still a micros player, have a lot to improve in my game. Glad to see someone helping :f_grin: About my edge sometimes i question that myself... they must be really bad players :f_biggrin:

      @taavi1337 You are also correct but i have to have something to guide me through. as i said they are "loose" objectives and if i don't achieve them i have to go check why and if i am happy with how i played then it's ok. If i kept losing on the river, draws not hitting etc, BUT i will have to check why i didn't hit my objective. Of course variance will make me have downswings more than 5k long or 100BB deep like the ones i have. Believe me i don't underestimate variance but i know it looks that way. Variance plays a very important role in my job too :f_cool:

      @Densyosh Wow your FL graph is :f_o: . Will follow your blog with interest :f_cool:
    • Avataren
      Avataren
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.04.2010 Posts: 1,745
      Virtua my friend rake isn't killing us :D You saw the other day i was running at 3.5 BB/100 on 5c/10c . . im sure you can do even better than that. and i agree with all the others. no peeking at your graph all the time while you play 3 tables and get nervous because i watch you play ;) result orientated/checking your session graph probably added a little stress to you when i was on teamviewer with you :)

      Lets sweat again. Either way is perfect for me :)

      glgl you know ill be following you :)
    • VirtuaGod
      VirtuaGod
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.02.2009 Posts: 514
      Originally posted by Avataren
      Virtua my friend rake isn't killing us :D
      It doesn't kill but it stings and makes a real dent in FL players WR. Just look at these rake stats:

      Originally posted by datsmahname

      My rake paid in BB/100 for 2012, mostly 6-max.
      .5/1 = 3.53 BB/100 (should be a good guess for stakes below .5/1 too).
      1/2 = 3.28 BB/100
      2/4 = 2.85 BB/100
    • VirtuaGod
      VirtuaGod
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.02.2009 Posts: 514
      Monthly Update 1

      I will also make a monthy update from here on to better view my progress. My monthy progress objectives are 20k hands and winning from 300 to 500 BB having at least a 2BB winrate. Of course it's just "loose" objectives as i hate being tied to short term objectives, but it will help to give perspective on my progress.

      Month of May:



      Volume: 11.3K hands Not OK Winnings: 228BB Not OK Winrate: 2.01 BB/100 OK

      My volume was low because i stopped 1.5 weeks to rest/review my game at around hand 3.5K and you can see it was good to stop. My winrate since then has been 3.5BB/100. So i think it was a successful month even though i didn't achive all the objectives. I still have so many big leaks i have to work on i feel my winrate could be like 5BB/100 :f_mad: Nice to finish the month in a heater and balancing the first 3.5k sideway hands in the beginning of the month.

      Lifetime graph:



      Current BR: $65.47 Current Limit: $0.05/$0.1 VPP: 409 FPP: 409 Winrate: 2.1 BB/100
    • Avataren
      Avataren
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.04.2010 Posts: 1,745
      Originally posted by VirtuaGod
      Monthly Update 1

      I will also make a monthy update from here on to better view my progress. My monthy progress objectives are 20k hands and winning from 300 to 500 BB having at least a 2BB winrate. Of course it's just "loose" objectives as i hate being tied to short term objectives, but it will help to give perspective on my progress.


      my friend dont put a winning goal up. having a hand played goal is fine just not winning x amount .. that is not good for you i swear and i think a lot of people will agree
    • poompah
      poompah
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.12.2011 Posts: 118
      I think its ok to have these types of goals -- as long as we dont get too attached to them -- see them as long term.

      Checking PT/HM graphs in-play and getting stressed is bad -- I used to do this and its just a total distraction. You can run little programs in the background that count how many hands you played or how much you won/lost and set alarms so you know when to take breaks -- and if you set a stop-loss.

      I used to run these programs -- but now have the discipline to have the numbers show on each table (total BB won/lost and number of hands). Knowing how much you won/lost on the table helps you keep track of your table image -- but be careful as it can lead to some mental pot-holes (such as staying on a bad table to try and get even).

      As long as VirtuaGod sees his WR as a trend rather than an absolute he should not have problems.

      We all trend to our actual WR rate from somewhere off it -- and the WR itself trends upwards if we are learning -- but remember that about 50% of people (like me!) will trend upwards to their WR (i.e. have a lower actual WR than EV). Many players who run good forget this -- and most long-term players ran good when they first started -- which gave them the confidence/belief and bankroll to keep at it.

      Here is an interesting site to see how WR and variance are affected buy our style of play -- play with the numbers for SD (standard deviation -- related to aggression and marginal plays) and WR:

      EV++

      Variance is a bitch. Keeping an eye on your WR will teach you this. A lower WR than expected can encourage more learning -- and thats no bad thing. And a higher WR than expected gives confidence. But variance always bites you in the end (well -- almost always).

      Use these goals and numbers to guide you -- but dont become fixated on them -- and they can be useful.
      ..
    • VirtuaGod
      VirtuaGod
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.02.2009 Posts: 514
      Originally posted by Avataren
      Originally posted by VirtuaGod
      Monthly Update 1

      I will also make a monthy update from here on to better view my progress. My monthy progress objectives are 20k hands and winning from 300 to 500 BB having at least a 2BB winrate. Of course it's just "loose" objectives as i hate being tied to short term objectives, but it will help to give perspective on my progress.


      my friend dont put a winning goal up. having a hand played goal is fine just not winning x amount .. that is not good for you i swear and i think a lot of people will agree
      I realize that but if i don't have anything to guide me through i won't be able to advance/validate progress. I know i am still too results oriented and like i said goals are there to keep me somewhat in line and if i don't achieve them to go and check why. If i was that hard on myself i wouldn't think last month was successful despite not achieving some goals. I need them to keep me inline. I made the mistake of setting goals (because of promotion) last time around and know it stresses me, not making the same mistake again (that's why i didn't deposit in the reload bonus in stars).

      You think that these are fixed goals, they are not... they're just guidlines!!
    • VirtuaGod
      VirtuaGod
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.02.2009 Posts: 514
      Originally posted by poompah
      Checking PT/HM graphs in-play and getting stressed is bad
      I get stressed if i don't check them and not knowing where i'm at. Don't knowing if i'm running good or not would drive me crazy. And besides i use it as a learning tool also to check real time IF a strategy is working. It's not the first time i think i'm behind a lot and i'm up somewhat. That was the way i realized blind stealing was important (even if i lost some bigger pots to implement the strategy). Every one learns at different paces and has different learning strategies. I adapt very quickly to conditions/limits and when i see something working i keep at it (wish i was this way against players but i just suck at poker and am a terrible HU and 3 handed player as my edge comes from 3/4 players paying when i have a big draw and/or hand). The other is people paying top pair with a weak kicker despite (or because of??) my raise preflop. Sometimes they are even gentle enough to raise the flop for me :f_biggrin:

      Originally posted by poompah
      Use these goals and numbers to guide you -- but dont become fixated on them -- and they can be useful.
      ..
      That's the idea :f_grin:
    • VirtuaGod
      VirtuaGod
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.02.2009 Posts: 514
      Originally posted by poompah
      Here is an interesting site to see how WR and variance are affected buy our style of play -- play with the numbers for SD (standard deviation -- related to aggression and marginal plays) and WR:
      Thx for the site...seems i'm running below expectation too but i guess most people are so...

      EDIT: Damn i seem to be a nit at BRM, at least this way variance won't affect me as much :f_grin:
    • Avataren
      Avataren
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.04.2010 Posts: 1,745
      Im not saying its bad to have goals .. We all have them and i do too i just strongly believe that setting a winning goal xx amount by then is bad. because then you get stressed over that and your confidence will go right through the ground if you dont achieve that and as poompah said variance is a bitch.

      having a winrate goal or hands played is no problem just dont focus on your winnings. I would suggest because i use it myself is setting a goal of achieving a certain stake. I have this vague idea that in 2 months ill be able to play 25/50c and win and trying to take shots at 0.5/1

      In January i set a goal going from 5c/10c to 25/50c (because ive playd at this stake before) and here i am winning at 2,30 BB/100 on 10/20c over 10816 hands and already have had shot or two at 25/50c to see if i could stay there. :)

      So my goals is actually long term .. Its not about how much i lose or win everyday its rather if i play good enough then i sometime will be able to move up and closer to my goal stake.
    • VirtuaGod
      VirtuaGod
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.02.2009 Posts: 514
      LOL Thought yesterday was the end of the month... just had a winning session of 24BB that would look cool as extension of that heater :f_cool: As of now that heater has 680 hands running at 19.2 BB/100 for a total win of 130 BB. A downswing is probably coming soon :f_cry:

      I'll post another hand with fishy play by me. Fortunately it ended up being my second most profitable hand ever (and the most profitable in the month of May). Like poompah himself would say I completely butchered this hand :f_mad:

      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.05/$0.1 Fixed-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)

      Preflop: Hero is CO with K, K.
      MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero raises, BU calls, SB folds, BB 3-Bets, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero caps, BU calls, BB calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

      Flop: (20.4 SB) Q, 2, J (5 players)
      BB bets, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, Hero calls, BU calls.

      Turn: (12.2 BB) 5 (4 players)
      BB bets, MP2 calls, Hero raises, BU calls, BB calls, MP2 calls.

      River: (20.2 BB) 6 (4 players)
      BB bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls, BU calls.

      Final Pot: 24.2 BB.

      Results follow:

      Hero shows a pair of kings(K K).
      BB shows a pair of jacks(J A).
      MP2 shows a pair of queens(A Q).
      BU shows a pair of queens(K Q).

      Hero wins with a pair of kings(K K).
    • poompah
      poompah
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.12.2011 Posts: 118
      Try to post some info/stats on your opponents and any meta-game thoughts that are relevant (such as you just took down a big pot -- or raising the last 3 hands in a row etc.)

      You did not butcher the hand - but you did miss maybe 1BB. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

      Obviously PF you played it fine. Good job and plenty of juicy value :)

      Key point: in a pot this huge pre-flop you are going to see a LOT of exceedingly light call-downs. Bear that in mind.

      The Flop is ok -- you are behind to QQ/JJ/QJ -- which are possible given the PF cap and cold-calls but no reason to run and hide just yet.
      I like your delayed raise -- for the reason I gave above and the fact that there are few draws out there -- no flush draws and you have blockers to most of the straight draws like T9, KT and AK.

      I like the Turn raise, obviously. And your hand looks a LOT like a semi-bluff (were you aware of that at the time?). Those calls mean you are ahead, no-one is slow-playing here.

      The Turn/River stop-and-go by BB looks like a made hand on the Flop. I see this a lot from donks and fish that put you on a flush draw -- wait for safe card then donk. The River is so unlikley to have hit anyones hand its very likely you are still ahead. Realistically you are behind only QQ/JJ/QJ but everything about your opponents play suggests they have 1-pair type hands.

      It would be a ballsy raise on the River with unimproved KK versus 3 players but the board could hardly have run out better for you, wth 2 total bricks Turn and River.
      Calling and taking the overcall from BB is ok -- but obviously when you saw their hands you know no-one is ever folding here!
      If the River had been another 5 or a 2 I would definitely raise -- as you now beat QJ.

      I think quite often if you raise the River 1 player folds and you get 2 calls -- so you lost (typically) 1BB -- less given someone may have 2-pair sometimes.

      Its easy to think you should have made more when you look at the HH -- but no-one ever folds the Flop in these spots so you cannot force out draws and can keep in weak hands that have very few outs -- but a raise will get players slowing down and you miss the chance of more value with a Turn raise. So I am fine with your play given your blockers.

      By the way -- if you want really meaningful discussion -- dont post a spolier -- wait a day or two until you have replies before posting the results. And dont say you won the hand either!

      This blog has the makings of a really interesting FL discussion and progress blog, and you write well and openly, which is good to see. Keep it up and good luck!

      ..
    • poompah
      poompah
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.12.2011 Posts: 118
      By the way I play mostly 0.25/0.50 and FL on stars and party, and taking shots at 0.5/1 but am a bankroll nit/sensible which slows things down.
      I work full-time so play typically only 12-15K hands a month -- usually 3-4 tabling for sessions around 300-700 hands.
      I find shorter sessions of up to 2 hours helps me stay focussed and I watch for signs of tiredness of weak play (and stop!).

      My main problems are playing too long when running bad! and weak-tight tendencies (though not really).

      My Greatest Fear: ending up like Phil Hellmuth (i.e. tilting and trash-talking).

      My Goal: 2.5BB/100 at 0.5/1 by late summer. And longer term playing 5/10 (which I have played back in the days of Party Poker and the so-called poker-boom years).

      I run bad a lot! I know because I get so many horrible beats -- often several hands in a row from 2 and 3-outers HU or 3-way. I also run way below expectation for flopping sets with pocket-pairs.
      I know that sounds like a moan -- but about a year ago I had a run of ridiculously unlikely beats (5 hands in a row) that added up to 28million:1 against.
      Posted (and odds confirmed) on another forum I no longer use.
      Most players wont see a run like that in their entire poker careers -- so I am trying to be philosophical. Its also why I returned to playing FL -- bad-beats are much more easily dealt with at FL than NL.

      Playing solid and picking spots to be very aggressive is where I have most improved, along with recognising when to provoke bluffs. Working now on my blind play and countering LAG/TAG players (i.e spotting their leaks and developing lines to exploit them).

      I am a below-EV player but trying to make the right plays nonetheless.
    • VirtuaGod
      VirtuaGod
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.02.2009 Posts: 514
      Originally posted by poompah
      By the way -- if you want really meaningful discussion -- dont post a spolier -- wait a day or two until you have replies before posting the results. And dont say you won the hand either!
      I posted in the hand discussion forum 2/3 days (without spoilers) before posting here. The only thing i regret is not a raising on the river... I could get so much value from that!! I believe at least 2 more BB.

      I don't run THAT bad. My PTR actually says i'm very lucky in straight and lucky in flushes. Guess variance is kinda on my side (despite the occasional bad beat on the river)...
    • Densyosh
      Densyosh
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.10.2009 Posts: 8,581
      Originally posted by VirtuaGod
      @Densyosh Wow your FL graph is :f_o: . Will follow your blog with interest :f_cool:
      Hi,

      ahah, well, you found the good word, I promise I will soon show you something special.. a new special graph made in Densyosh.. the biggest down ever ahah..

      I'm in to keep following your blog too, and give you some tips if I can, and I'm very sorry with my ridiculous English.. I guess I bad 4life to master this language.. :facepalm:

      ^^
    • poompah
      poompah
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.12.2011 Posts: 118
      OK - posting for discussion is always good -- I missed it but you could post a link to the hands for discussion in this blog -- to save lazy trolls like me searching for them :/

      Its prob better to separate the discussions from the blog anyway...

      Its easy for you to think -- oh I should have mae another 2-3BB -- that only happens with hindsight -- but understanding your thinking and reasoning at the time plus meta-game and reads makes it much harder in-game than on a forum!!
      Realistically -- you are forgetting the times you are against a better hand (like QJ) which you will be re-raised and lose 2BB.

      Raising the River is tough here -- but there are very good reasons for doing so (you hand is well-disguised -- and you will get light calls in such a huge pot) and you stand to gain more than you lose -- so it boils down to probability.

      Ask yourself -- I win 3BB more when I am ahead -- his donk looks like a made hand trying to get value -- but not a strong hand which XR the River brick -- and if you are behind to QJ or some other unlikely hands -- you lose an extra 2BB.
      You are certainly ahead of 2 out of the 3 players -- so getting great value on the overcalls.
      You can do the math with your risk-vs-return and also run some ranges in Equilab.

      A good hand to think on and make adjustments with from what you learn.
    • VirtuaGod
      VirtuaGod
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.02.2009 Posts: 514
      Originally posted by poompah
      you could post a link to the hands for discussion in this blog -- to save lazy trolls like me searching for them :/
      Nice. Will do that in the future :f_cool:

      Originally posted by Densyosh
      I promise I will soon show you something special.. a new special graph made in Densyosh.. the biggest down ever ahah..
      Sorry to hear that. Looking forward to learning something from you. You're english is ok by today's standards. Has long as people understand you :f_biggrin: Keep practicing and you'll get better, it's an easy language (obviously also not my first language so...)
    • VirtuaGod
      VirtuaGod
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.02.2009 Posts: 514
      Weekly Update 2

      It was an interesting week. Biggest upswing ever, biggest downswing ever, but excellent finish :f_biggrin:

      Last week (Tuesday to Monday):



      Volume: 3.1K hands Not OK Winnings: 87BB OK Winrate: 2.78BB/100 OK

      Considering i had to cut several session short because of the downswing the volume is ok by me. That's not what worries me. I have some leaks about not being aggressive enough when i should but being aggressive in spots that i really shouldn't. I'm posting hands in the hands forum to see where i'm making these mistakes. However i'm not seeing much improvement in the short term but i guess poker is about the long term and plugging leaks here and there on our way up :f_grin:

      Lifetime graph:



      Current BR: $66.61 Current Limit: $0.05/$0.1 VPP: 446 FPP: 446 Winrate: 1.97BB/100
    • VirtuaGod
      VirtuaGod
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.02.2009 Posts: 514
      I hate coolers more than suckouts. Damn them hurt so much!!

      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.05/$0.1 Fixed-Limit Hold'em (5 handed)

      Preflop: Hero is BU with Q, T.
      MP3 folds, CO raises, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls.

      Flop: (8 SB) K, T, Q (4 players)
      SB checks, BB checks, CO bets, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls.

      Turn: (6 BB) Q (4 players)
      SB checks, BB checks, CO bets, Hero calls, SB folds, BB folds.

      River: (8 BB) 4 (2 players)
      CO bets, Hero raises, CO 3-Bets, Hero caps, CO calls.

      Final Pot: 16 BB.
      Results follow:

      Hero shows a full-house, queens full of tens(Q T).
      CO shows a full-house, queens full of kings(Q K).

      CO wins with a full-house, queens full of kings(Q K).


      No need to post others, everyone knows how it goes :f_o:

      Anyway, hit an all time record today! BR stands at $68.71. :f_cool: