BRM - Sunday Million

    • Lukasz40i4
      Lukasz40i4
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.07.2009 Posts: 644
      Hi,
      I was thinking about what bankroll you need to play SM on regular basis. Everyone agrees that this tourney is super EV+, with a lot of fishes and people, who are money scared. So my point is - from what point ( I mean bankroll amount ) is it advised to add SM to your regular MTT session?
      I play mostly 11-33$ tourneys with 6k$ bankroll, adding to this 11+R and The Big 55$.

      So my question is - does it make sense to play SM in my situation, taking into account the fact, that I am quite sure I have skill advantage over a lot of the players?

      And if you think it is not a good idea, what bankroll is needed to add SM to your sunday sessions?

      Thanks for all responses, and sry for my english, its not my first language.
  • 37 replies
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      If you are a MTT grinder, why not sattelite into it through tourneys closer to your regular ones?
    • Lukasz40i4
      Lukasz40i4
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.07.2009 Posts: 644
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      If you are a MTT grinder, why not sattelite into it through tourneys closer to your regular ones?
      Playing sats is an option, but you will pay for your buy in anyway. It will be less, because you will show profit playing them, but in the long run you pay like 80% of buy-in to play in SM, so that doesn't solve the problem of BRM.


      .
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Gold
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      if any tournaments 1st prize is above ur bankroll then you probably shouldn't be playing it. You wouldn't really be grinding it tho, you'd be taking a huge shot once a week which wouldn't hurt if u put in good volume @11-33$

      u could also try selling half ur action
    • Asaban
      Asaban
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 22.09.2006 Posts: 8,234
      Imo your bankroll is way to small to play a 200$ tournament regularly. I wouldn't recommend it until you have 20k$ or even 40k$. And it's still a shot then. The SM is really swingy and you will lose your edge in the late game because you will be scared of money. Furthermore your opponents in the late game will be much better then at the beginning. You will always meet a few very good regulars in the late game.

      Best idea would be to build up your bankroll without silly shots. 30 BI's are not enough for this kind of tournament.

      Regards,
      Asaban
    • LgWz
      LgWz
      Black
      Joined: 26.05.2007 Posts: 7,641
      I think $20k is more than enough to play it as long as it's the only $200+ you play. Grinding all the majors would be a different thing and I'd need a much bigger roll.

      With $6k I'd not play it but if you really want to you can put aside $x to try to satellite in each week.
    • Lukasz40i4
      Lukasz40i4
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.07.2009 Posts: 644
      Originally posted by Asaban
      Imo your bankroll is way to small to play a 200$ tournament regularly. I wouldn't recommend it until you have 20k$ or even 40k$. And it's still a shot then. The SM is really swingy and you will lose your edge in the late game because you will be scared of money. Furthermore your opponents in the late game will be much better then at the beginning. You will always meet a few very good regulars in the late game.

      Best idea would be to build up your bankroll without silly shots. 30 BI's are not enough for this kind of tournament.

      Regards,
      Asaban
      To be honest, I'm not money scared at all, last month I was deep in Red Spade Open with 200+k$ for the first place - I had no problem with taking ev+ spots for my tournament life, playing my A-game most of the time (eventually I finished 18th due to the 3 consecutive bad beats - but I played weeelll :f_grin: ).

      And at the beginning SM is ridiculously soft, so despite a lot
      of regs its EV+ in the long run. And if one put decent volume at lower stakes, it won't make the avg bi much higher. So waiting for 20k isn't a little bit too conservative?

      Originally posted by LgWz
      I think $20k is more than enough to play it as long as it's the only $200+ you play. Grinding all the majors would be a different thing and I'd need a much bigger roll. With $6k I'd not play it but if you really want to you can put aside $x to try to satellite in each week.


      So how big the starting bankroll amount would be in you opinion?



      .
    • tcs35
      tcs35
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.01.2009 Posts: 3,583
      Originally posted by ihufa
      if any tournaments 1st prize is above ur bankroll then you probably shouldn't be playing it. You wouldn't really be grinding it tho, you'd be taking a huge shot once a week which wouldn't hurt if u put in good volume @11-33$

      u could also try selling half ur action
      i dont care what you wrote but you're not dead that is kinda cool. that is all
    • Asaban
      Asaban
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 22.09.2006 Posts: 8,234
      Imo a solid bankroll management is one of the most important things for tournament players. 100 BI's isn't solid at all. You can obv play a 200$ tournament with a 20k BR - but it's still a shot and nothing else. If you want to play more sunday majors on a weekly base you should have a BR of 50k$+ imo. It's great if you think that you have an edge in these tournaments. Still the variance is gigantic and 100BI's are nothing.

      Playing these tournaments while having a much lower ABI results in long break even runs since it will be hard to make up for the big buyins with your low ABI.

      Imo one should play tournaments that fit in their normal bankroll management. If you have a 15$ ABI you really shouldn't play a 200$ MTT because you give yourself an edge. If you really have a big advantage you will be able to play them on a regular basis in the near future. Why do you want to gamble?
    • Mikus8
      Mikus8
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.10.2011 Posts: 240
      Originally posted by Asaban
      Imo one should play tournaments that fit in their normal bankroll management. If you have a 15$ ABI you really shouldn't play a 200$ MTT because you give yourself an edge. If you really have a big advantage you will be able to play them on a regular basis in the near future. Why do you want to gamble?
      Poker is random and almost every big tournament has these ridiculous fishes sitting at final table, shipping 25k+. It hurts to see that that random donkey shipping in more in a single tournament than you grinding your ass of for a year or two. Everybody wants to score big in a sunday million, and if fishes limping 83s UTG does so, it makes you believe you have better chance of scoring so it's very tempting to give it a shot.
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Gold
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      Originally posted by tcs35
      Originally posted by ihufa
      if any tournaments 1st prize is above ur bankroll then you probably shouldn't be playing it. You wouldn't really be grinding it tho, you'd be taking a huge shot once a week which wouldn't hurt if u put in good volume @11-33$

      u could also try selling half ur action
      i dont care what you wrote but you're not dead that is kinda cool. that is all
      right back at you
    • Lukasz40i4
      Lukasz40i4
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.07.2009 Posts: 644
      Originally posted by Asaban
      Imo a solid bankroll management is one of the most important things for tournament players. 100 BI's isn't solid at all. You can obv play a 200$ tournament with a 20k BR - but it's still a shot and nothing else. If you want to play more sunday majors on a weekly base you should have a BR of 50k$+ imo. It's great if you think that you have an edge in these tournaments. Still the variance is gigantic and 100BI's are nothing.

      Playing these tournaments while having a much lower ABI results in long break even runs since it will be hard to make up for the big buyins with your low ABI.

      Imo one should play tournaments that fit in their normal bankroll management. If you have a 15$ ABI you really shouldn't play a 200$ MTT because you give yourself an edge. If you really have a big advantage you will be able to play them on a regular basis in the near future. Why do you want to gamble?
      Maybe you are right... I have to stop cashing out then :)
      Thx for help!
    • M0na1isa
      M0na1isa
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.02.2012 Posts: 133
      what I do is I put a percentage of my winning into BIG tournaments savings account. that I can play dream tournaments with no worries ^^

      but with $6k bankroll I think you should start playing higher buy-ins, not 200 something per se, but between 50-100. 11-22 are waste of time imo with that bankroll.
    • Asaban
      Asaban
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 22.09.2006 Posts: 8,234
      Originally posted by M0na1isa
      what I do is I put a percentage of my winning into BIG tournaments savings account. that I can play dream tournaments with no worries ^^

      but with $6k bankroll I think you should start playing higher buy-ins, not 200 something per se, but between 50-100. 11-22 are waste of time imo with that bankroll.
      Sry - but this is bs!
      50-100$ BI with 6k$ BR? If you really mean it you have no clue of variance and proper BRM. You can play these MTT's with a BR of 25k$ or even 30k$. I normally recommend 400 ABI for players that want to earn money with poker on a longterm basis.
    • M0na1isa
      M0na1isa
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.02.2012 Posts: 133
      you need to have $30k to start playing 50-100 buy-ins? like 300-600 buy-ins?
      for real?
    • Mikus8
      Mikus8
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.10.2011 Posts: 240
      Originally posted by M0na1isa
      you need to have $30k to start playing 50-100 buy-ins? like 300-600 buy-ins?
      for real?
      you can start playing those when you have 109$ BR, but if you don't want to lose it you should arm with at least 150 buyins and be ready to drop down stakes after losing first 60 or so
    • phantommm92
      phantommm92
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.05.2010 Posts: 1,464
      Originally posted by Asaban
      Originally posted by M0na1isa
      what I do is I put a percentage of my winning into BIG tournaments savings account. that I can play dream tournaments with no worries ^^

      but with $6k bankroll I think you should start playing higher buy-ins, not 200 something per se, but between 50-100. 11-22 are waste of time imo with that bankroll.
      Sry - but this is bs!
      50-100$ BI with 6k$ BR? If you really mean it you have no clue of variance and proper BRM. You can play these MTT's with a BR of 25k$ or even 30k$. I normally recommend 400 ABI for players that want to earn money with poker on a longterm basis.
      totally agree with you 400-500 BI for living off it, or making descent money is a minimum
    • Asaban
      Asaban
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 22.09.2006 Posts: 8,234
      150 BI's are nothing in terms of tournament poker. You can drop 150 BI's quite quickly. 200 ABI is the absolut minimum imo. The more the better. There is no too tight in BRM.
    • ProlinePoker
      ProlinePoker
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.10.2009 Posts: 53
      If I were I'd stick within BRM, and then use the fpps to freeroll for bigger shots, like SM. even a direct entry is just 13k fpp I think, so given your abi you must accumulate fpp at a nice pace, so why not using those fpp for shots at SM? Unless of course you're grinding easy sats and unregistering for a better rakeback
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Gold
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      Originally posted by M0na1isa
      what I do is I put a percentage of my winning into BIG tournaments savings account. that I can play dream tournaments with no worries ^^

      but with $6k bankroll I think you should start playing higher buy-ins, not 200 something per se, but between 50-100. 11-22 are waste of time imo with that bankroll.
      2012'er :facepalm:
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