Do I suck at Zoom?

    • z1pz0r
      z1pz0r
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.08.2009 Posts: 981
      I'd like you guys to look at some hands I played recently. I lost them all obv. I am not whining, or anything. I'd like to know if I played these hands badly, is it variance, or am I not playing Zoom correctly as it seems I'm losing a lot of money in it.

      I'm asking any of you guys to please take a look at any of my hand and comment on any.


      Poker Stars $200.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1721276
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      BTN: $350.56
      SB: $273.37
      Hero (BB): $200.00
      UTG: $131.12
      MP: $200.00
      CO: $208.55

      Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is BB with A :diamond: A :heart:
      UTG raises to $4.18, 2 folds, BTN calls $4.18, 1 fold, Hero raises to $20, 1 fold, BTN calls $15.82

      Flop: ($45.18) 4 :diamond: 8 :diamond: Q :spade: (2 players)
      Hero bets $22.00, BTN calls $22

      Turn: ($89.18) 7 :diamond: (2 players)
      Hero bets $41.00, BTN calls $41

      River: ($171.18) 4 :club: (2 players)
      Hero bets $117.00, BTN calls $117

      Villain is unknown.

      I can't honestly hardly think of better line, cooler? c/f river?

      Poker Stars $200.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1721277
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      BTN: $234.94
      SB: $351.88
      BB: $200.00
      Hero (UTG): $200.00
      MP: $274.20
      CO: $200.00

      Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is UTG with A :spade: Q :heart:
      Hero raises to $6, 2 folds, BTN calls $6, 2 folds

      Flop: ($15.00) A :club: 4 :club: Q :diamond: (2 players)
      Hero bets $10.74, BTN calls $10.74

      Turn: ($36.48) 6 :heart: (2 players)
      Hero bets $27.87, BTN calls $27.87

      River: ($92.22) J :spade: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BTN bets $42.00, Hero raises to $155.39, BTN calls $113.39

      Villain is a reg, with 40% fold to cbet, short sample. Two barreled him before, where he folded to 2. barrel. Do I only have to call river?

      Poker Stars $200.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1721279
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      BTN: $275.95
      SB: $407.60
      Hero (BB): $200.00
      UTG: $551.92
      MP: $447.11
      CO: $249.92

      Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is BB with Q :club: T :diamond:
      3 folds, BTN raises to $6, 1 fold, Hero calls $4

      Flop: ($13.00) Q :spade: T :club: 4 :spade: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BTN bets $9.31, Hero raises to $30.10, BTN calls $20.79

      Turn: ($73.20) J :club: (2 players)
      Hero bets $50.00, BTN raises to $110, Hero raises to $163.90, BTN calls $53.90

      River: ($401.00) 6 :heart: (2 players)


      Villain steals 100% from BU after 20 hands, unknown otherwise. Do I have a bet/fold turn?

      Poker Stars $100.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1721283
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      BTN: $493.56
      SB: $493.96
      BB: $100.00
      UTG: $111.47
      MP: $160.66
      Hero (CO): $234.19

      Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is CO with A :spade: Q :spade:
      UTG raises to $3, 1 fold, Hero raises to $10, 3 folds, UTG calls $7

      Flop: ($21.50) Q :diamond: 7 :diamond: T :spade: (2 players)
      UTG checks, Hero bets $13.75, UTG raises to $31, Hero raises to $224.19, UTG calls $70.47 all in

      Turn: ($224.44) K :spade: (2 players - 1 is all in)

      River: ($224.44) 8 :diamond: (2 players - 1 is all in)

      Villain is 50/38 over 10 hands, plays only 1 table. Do I have cbet/fold flop?


      Poker Stars $100.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1721286
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      BTN: $86.00
      SB: $264.75
      BB: $100.00
      Hero (UTG): $162.61
      MP: $100.00
      CO: $52.64

      Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is UTG with 8 :heart: 7 :heart:
      Hero raises to $3, 2 folds, BTN calls $3, 2 folds

      Flop: ($7.50) 5 :heart: 6 :diamond: K :heart: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BTN checks

      Turn: ($7.50) 3 :club: (2 players)
      Hero bets $5.37, BTN raises to $13, Hero calls $7.63

      River: ($33.50) 4 :heart: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BTN bets $14.00, Hero raises to $146.61, BTN calls $56 all in

      Villain is unknown. Do I even have value c/r on river?
  • 40 replies
    • TurnitAce
      TurnitAce
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2011 Posts: 315
      should i understand that you lost all the hands? most plays look standard i think
    • William340
      William340
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.02.2012 Posts: 170
      Originally posted by TurnitAce
      should i understand that you lost all the hands? most plays look standard i think
      Originally posted by z1pz0r
      I'd like you guys to look at some hands I played recently. I lost them all obv.
      yes. yes, you should.
      ;)
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      I'm dumb
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Last hand is kinda meh, I think donking prob is better
      Ah QT looks kinda lame as well, don't rly see much worse shipping in
      AQo, meh, just 3barrel, now u let weak aces c/beh and w your image i'd imagine he'd be paying off more often than w c/r. w your image he's prob calling down w sets too and u only might get val from Aj w c/r and vtown vs everything else imo.

      But tbh SH is like my weakest game evurr so doubt my advice is of any value. :f_biggrin:
    • handsomeover
      handsomeover
      Basic
      Joined: 23.02.2012 Posts: 34
      AA hand: bet more on the flop to defend any draws, it's not really bad to bet this hand all the way through and no they don't always have a flush, to bad you didn't had any stats on him, if you check on the turn they gonna exploit you so much there. I would give up the river, with a pair he would be happy to check behind you.
    • z1pz0r
      z1pz0r
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.08.2009 Posts: 981
      Originally posted by NightFrostaSS
      Last hand is kinda meh, I think donking prob is better
      Ah QT looks kinda lame as well, don't rly see much worse shipping in
      AQo, meh, just 3barrel, now u let weak aces c/beh and w your image i'd imagine he'd be paying off more often than w c/r. w your image he's prob calling down w sets too and u only might get val from Aj w c/r and vtown vs everything else imo.

      But tbh SH is like my weakest game evurr so doubt my advice is of any value. :f_biggrin:
      Last hand I can't donk. I can cbet, went for c/r because I see many peope giving up on pots, being the original raisor (and cold-callers betting after check a LOT).
      QT - the games on NL200 zoom are very aggressive from late positions. I expect him to ship KQ, TJ here, I might be wrong.
      AQo - I put him on Ax a lot. I also checked very fast the river, I think he's going
      to valuebet any Ax + bluff any missed draw, so IMO the value of checking>3barreling, especially since we're unknown to each other.
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Yea, I didn't do too well @ 200 rush sh (but yeah, it was super aggro) and don't play zoom sh so dunno, as mentioned earlier my advice is prob worthless.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Hand 1: I think your 3bet preflop is way too small. 10bb OOP vs 2 players is very very small. 14bbs at minimum imo. Vs fish I make it even larger. Postflop, I don't think there's anything to comment on.

      Hand 2: You think someone double floats bare FD then bluffs it on that river? Like really? Vs UTG open? Just bet/fold imo. He can't even raise AJ for value vs your range. He needs some sick ass read/dynamic to do it.

      Hand 3: Not much worse gets it in imo. If he doesn't have any pair + FD or GS type hands you are probably drawing dead. Even if he has such hands you might not get the odds to ship it.

      Hand 4: Nothing to say, half stack TPTK in 3bet pot with BD FD, can't ask for much more than that.

      Hand 5: I personally think you've completely butchered the hand. If you elect not to cbet, why do you delay cbet a blank turn which will always get called by middle pairs once you check flop? He will call twice with most midpairs after you choose to not cbet that flop. If you took the passive line to induce then go through with the plan and c/r turn and bomb river.

      I don't get the use of opening suited connectors UTG when you don't apply pressure with the best you can hope to flop really. It's not like you have NFD so he can valuetown himself ocassionally with worse FDs or something like that.

      As played I think donking river is probably best, although your hand is really face up and the whole line doesn't make much sense.
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Ah yea, damn, didn't even notice the flop action on 87 hand, i need to sleep more I guess, but yeah, agreed.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Originally posted by NightFrostaSS
      Ah yea, damn, didn't even notice the flop action on 87 hand, i need to sleep more I guess, but yeah, agreed.
      Your furrrrrrrball causing you problems? Or is it just you being yourself? :f_biggrin:
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      Originally posted by NightFrostaSS
      Ah yea, damn, didn't even notice the flop action on 87 hand, i need to sleep more I guess, but yeah, agreed.
      Your furrrrrrrball causing you problems? Or is it just you being yourself? :f_biggrin:
      A bit of both I guess. I'm trying to grind at night more and my kitten doesn't rly like me sleeping all day long, so he climbs into my bed goes near my head and starts purring until I get up. :f_biggrin:
    • z1pz0r
      z1pz0r
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.08.2009 Posts: 981
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      Hand 1: I think your 3bet preflop is way too small. 10bb OOP vs 2 players is very very small. 14bbs at minimum imo. Vs fish I make it even larger. Postflop, I don't think there's anything to comment on.

      Hand 2: You think someone double floats bare FD then bluffs it on that river? Like really? Vs UTG open? Just bet/fold imo. He can't even raise AJ for value vs your range. He needs some sick ass read/dynamic to do it.

      Hand 3: Not much worse gets it in imo. If he doesn't have any pair + FD or GS type hands you are probably drawing dead. Even if he has such hands you might not get the odds to ship it.

      Hand 4: Nothing to say, half stack TPTK in 3bet pot with BD FD, can't ask for much more than that.

      Hand 5: I personally think you've completely butchered the hand. If you elect not to cbet, why do you delay cbet a blank turn which will always get called by middle pairs once you check flop? He will call twice with most midpairs after you choose to not cbet that flop. If you took the passive line to induce then go through with the plan and c/r turn and bomb river.

      I don't get the use of opening suited connectors UTG when you don't apply pressure with the best you can hope to flop really. It's not like you have NFD so he can valuetown himself ocassionally with worse FDs or something like that.

      As played I think donking river is probably best, although your hand is really face up and the whole line doesn't make much sense.
      Hand 1:
      I didn't know bu was on fishier side. 14 bbs is way too large IMO, the openraiser only minraised after all. You'd be risking 14 bbs to win 19 bbs, pure bluffs would have to work 74% of time (the number is too high imo).

      Hand 2:
      Yeah, I do, given I have two barreled him before so he might think I'm barrel-happy.

      Hand 3:
      I know what you mean. That does mean I have to start folding such hands even vs people with 50%+ open (that's what I presumed about his opening range). I would be super exploitable but maybe that's the way to go.

      Hand 5:
      Your reasoning makes sense.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Originally posted by z1pz0r

      Hand 1:
      I didn't know bu was on fishier side. 14 bbs is way too large IMO, the openraiser only minraised after all. You'd be risking 14 bbs to win 19 bbs, pure bluffs would have to work 74% of time (the number is too high imo).

      Hand 2:
      Yeah, I do, given I have two barreled him before so he might think I'm barrel-happy.

      Hand 3:
      I know what you mean. That does mean I have to start folding such hands even vs people with 50%+ open (that's what I presumed about his opening range). I would be super exploitable but maybe that's the way to go.

      Hand 5:
      Your reasoning makes sense.
      Hand 1: Your range should be super depolarized and have few if any bluffs so forget about the risking X to win Y. You are doing it wide for value against BU and against UTG you will always have blockers to hands he can 4bet you with.

      Hand 2: 2 barrel someone once doesn't mean he'll double float air. He will usually have showdown value. If he has showdown value the correct play is to bet/fold your top 2. C/c is super optimistic given the draws in his range are few and his value betting range can't be too wide. When you c/r you just HOPE to get AJ to call and that's about it. Even a bet with AT on his part is marginal so you are unlikely to get any value.

      Hand 3: Exploitable is not a leak. I didn't say fold it preflop, yet on the turn you can safely assume he is value raising and that you don't beat enough of that range to get it in. Since you are BB vs BU preflop I don't think the call is bad although my default is to 3bet most hands I want to play until I get a better idea of villain's postflop tendencies.
    • z1pz0r
      z1pz0r
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.08.2009 Posts: 981
      Hand 1:
      As said, I didn't know he was a fish. I would probably squeeze with something like 78s too because I expect to have decent fold equity with my sizing vs presumable regs.

      Hand 2: I didn't mention that he 3betted me a bit before, that's why I ruled out QQ and AA. 44 has 3 combos, AJ has 9 and I estimated he calls more than 33% with AJ on river, maybe this presumtion is wrong.


      Thank you for all answers.
    • OwaruSekai
      OwaruSekai
      Diamond
      Joined: 28.03.2009 Posts: 6
      Originally posted by z1pz0r
      Hand 1:
      As said, I didn't know he was a fish. I would probably squeeze with something like 78s too because I expect to have decent fold equity with my sizing vs presumable regs.

      Hand 2: I didn't mention that he 3betted me a bit before, that's why I ruled out QQ and AA. 44 has 3 combos, AJ has 9 and I estimated he calls more than 33% with AJ on river, maybe this presumtion is wrong.


      Thank you for all answers.
      Hand 2:

      Actually he only has 6 combos of AJ on the river, remember what hand you're holding :/. And it depends on how wide he floats there obviously, but if you think he thinks you're full of shit he could have atleast a few combos of pure floats like 66 on the river, aswell as random broadways some of which spiked the river F.E. KJs, but still bet because he thinks they're too weak to check back.

      But realistically speaking his river bet/call range is: 50% of his AJ combos at most (3), KTs (3) since he probably raises the turn with KcTc, 44 (3), and 33% of 66 combos (1). So you beat 3 combos and lose to 7.

      This nevertheless is a pretty optimistic estimation he could be floating you with KTo in which case this is a HUGE mistake to ch/r.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Originally posted by z1pz0r
      Hand 1:
      As said, I didn't know he was a fish. I would probably squeeze with something like 78s too because I expect to have decent fold equity with my sizing vs presumable regs.
      It doesn't matter if he is a fish or not in this case. A strong hand would 3bet anyway. Regs rarely flat minraises IP with strong hands and rightfully don't. KJo might not be the bottom of my 3betting range there. You are also OOP and I make 3bets bigger in that situation since I want to give worse odds for a call. That's why 14bb is definitely a good sizing.

      Long story short: They both have weak ranges, you attack with wide value range since you are way ahead.

      Q: Why would you want to make it small with 78s and get calls? That hand plays atrociously in 3 way pot OOP. If you 3bet so small with all SC you get SC that dominate you to call IP. Great results, ain't it? :D

      @Hand 2: You opened UTG and fired twice. You really don't realize how strong your perceived range should be here? I might be mistaken but you probably shouldn't have a river c/c or c/r range given the board texture and the action without VERY solid reads and dynamics, not this I 2 barreled him once and he 3bet me once non-sense.
    • Dublimax
      Dublimax
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2008 Posts: 2,233
      10bb sizing over a minraise is fine imo.
      14bb is too big.
      If they want to call with crap because they are IP abd get "good odds" (which they don't btw) I am more than happy.

      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      Long story short: They both have weak ranges, you attack with wide value range since you are way ahead.
      So why make it big?
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Originally posted by Dublimax
      10bb sizing over a minraise is fine imo.
      14bb is too big.
      If they want to call with crap because they are IP abd get "good odds" (which they don't btw) I am more than happy.
      A minraise and a call + we are OOP. If Hero's range contains hands like 67s, 78s, he is correct to call any decent suited connector IP like T9s+ and he gets good odds for pairs.

      It does depend a lot on what Hero's range would be there but there aren't many worse hands than 78s he can have so I assume Hero will be too wide. You also run the risk of getting it 3way when the player IP will never fold what he cold called pre anyway after UTG decides he likes his hand.

      LE:

      Originally posted by Dublimax
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      Long story short: They both have weak ranges, you attack with wide value range since you are way ahead.
      So why make it big?
      Because you get value and you still lack positional advantage. You are ahead but you don't crush when you add hands like KJ, QJ to your value range. If you only 3bet AA, sure, 3bet small, induce, let him call anything because he will call incorrectly.
    • Dublimax
      Dublimax
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2008 Posts: 2,233
      I wouldnt sqz SCs here btw. But then again 14bbs is too big when you bluff. That's 7x!