[NL2-NL10] Nl4 Sh 88

    • muel294
      muel294
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,207
      Pre: no need to 3b, just call for set value

      Flop: Donk for value/prot vs overs and 77/44 maybe A6 or something. Maybe 78, but unlikely given my hand.

      Also if we are HU I might consider c-rai/fold depending on hoiw frequently villain is cbetting, or do you genereally prefer DB/fold these spots?

      Turn: I think b/f turns my hand into a bluff, what worse hand can call me? Don't know opponent well enough to c/c, plus I do not know what to do on a ton of rivers

      888 Poker - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BB: $4.52
      UTG: $5.94
      MP: $4.43
      CO: $3.14
      BTN: $3.79 39/21/2/3b 3/28/111 LAGish
      Hero (SB): $6.09

      Hero posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04

      Pre Flop: (pot: $0.06) Hero has 8:spade: 8:heart:

      fold, fold, CO calls $0.04, BTN raises to $0.20, Hero calls $0.18, fold, CO calls $0.16

      Flop: ($0.64, 3 players) 6:club: 3:diamond: 5:heart:
      Hero bets $0.40, fold, BTN calls $0.40

      Turn: ($1.44, 2 players) J:spade:
      Hero checks, BTN bets $1.08, fold

      BTN wins $1.37
  • 8 replies
    • staktas
      staktas
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.03.2011 Posts: 1,346
      What's his WTS and WTSD? If it's rather low, I don't think then, that calling for set value is +EV, giving that we're oop. Because if he's raising a lot pre, and then folds a lot post, when we won't be able to stack him very often with our set.

      About donking. If he's cbetting a lot, I would probably c/c. If he's not, then I would donk too, because there's the fish(CO) in the hand too, and we want to get value from it.
    • muel294
      muel294
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,207
      well his WTSD is 28% 11/40 kind of loose and passive if you ask me. So I guess we can set mine profitably here, especially given that the "call 20 rule" is fulfilled.

      If it is was much lower, would you prefer a 3b, surely we cannot fold pre?

      About donking. If he's cbetting a lot, I would probably c/c. If he's not, then I would donk too, because there's the fish(CO) in the hand too, and we want to get value from it.


      He was cbetting 100% (9/9) so I guess you would prefer c/c in this spot. But how to do we continue on turn and river if he continues to show aggression? Just c/f? Basically we are just bluff catching then aren't we?

      re: the DB I prefer this line because we can get called by worse and we are rarely being bluff raised.
    • staktas
      staktas
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.03.2011 Posts: 1,346
      Originally posted by muel294

      If it is was much lower, would you prefer a 3b, surely we cannot fold pre?

      If it was lower, then yes, I would 3bet. Because, i think, players who go to showdown rarely, also tend to fold to 3bets more. But it depends on his ft3b, and what he calls 3bets with. His open raising range will be very loose on BTN isolating the fish.

      He was cbetting 100% (9/9) so I guess you would prefer c/c in this spot. But how to do we continue on turn and river if he continues to show aggression? Just c/f? Basically we are just bluff catching then aren't we?


      Well, it's tough spot for me :f_biggrin: Let's wait what veriz has to say. Don't take my word to seriously, I'm just a small fishy, trying to say something smart :f_biggrin:
    • muel294
      muel294
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,207
      well thats why I post. I want feedback like this, I just like to discuss things further.

      thanks for your feedback :f_biggrin:
    • esuohdla
      esuohdla
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.05.2011 Posts: 411
      Actually detest the donk bet here, gives him tons of ways to call with overs and either hit or rep a stronger overpair. Your just bleeding money if you c/f on the turn as he will probably be betting regardless of hitting the J or not. Board like that if you must take a stab at it I much prefer C/Ring as he should fold at least some hands better than yours (99,TT) or you can check/call. I even prefer a check/fold to a donk bet myself.

      As you played it I feel we always have to barrel any non A or K turn. The J does improve some of his range but there is still plenty of hands we have beaten (KQ,AQ,AT type hands) that might peel another card, or worst case he should still see a river with pair+over (A6,A5,A3)
    • muel294
      muel294
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,207
      Your just bleeding money if you c/f on the turn


      I totally agree....and against good aggressive players I will get floated against very often by checking the turn. and as you say..

      I feel we always have to barrel any non A or K turn. The J does improve some of his range but there is still plenty of hands we have beaten (KQ,AQ,AT type hands) that might peel another card, or worst case he should still see a river with pair+over (A6,A5,A3)


      I think if we bet the turn again and get raised we are rarely being bluffed and also we get thin value from the above hands, maybe 77/44 as well.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello muel294,

      Preflop: I wouldn't say we can't set mine here. Cause we can still even Call for not only set mining but even maybe for an overpair.

      As played
      Postflop: Depends a lot on the opponents CB and how often we expect him to CB. If he doesn't CB that often then yes, donking is a great option to avoid Check behinds. Although if I Bet the flop then vs his wide range I would also Bet the turn for protection & value. :)

      Best Regards.
    • muel294
      muel294
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,207
      Thanks veriz and everyone else for the feedback. This hand has been particularly helpful.

      I'm still trying to find correct spots on the turn to play aggressively for value and protection and to play more passively for pot control and also how and when to differentiate from these two lines/situations.