[NL2-NL10] Zoom Full-House. Is this a fold?

    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Interesting spot imo given what I think of zoom so far.

      Poker Stars $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      dk parkman (): $4.06
      Zuklar (): $0.73
      pouuuu (): $2.00
      AltSt (): $2.71
      Puzoman (): $4.47
      SUCAEDI (): $1.16
      HaFnHa (): $2.23
      kirler (): $2.11
      Hero (): $5.47

      Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is with 8 :club: 8 :spade:
      3 folds, HaFnHa calls $0.02, kirler raises to $0.08, Hero calls $0.08, 3 folds, HaFnHa calls $0.06

      Flop: ($0.27) 8 :heart: T :club: 3 :spade: (3 players)
      HaFnHa checks, kirler checks, Hero bets $0.18, HaFnHa calls $0.18, kirler folds

      Turn: ($0.63) 3 :diamond: (2 players)
      HaFnHa checks, Hero bets $0.40, HaFnHa raises to $0.80, Hero calls $0.40

      River: ($2.23) 5 :diamond: (2 players)
      HaFnHa bets $1.17 all in, Hero calls $1.17


      Ok, so people on zoom seem to play uuuber nitty tight postflop (on NL2, for example minibet TPTK several streets is not uncommon). When I see a line like this, C/C, C/R its more than likely a set or sometimes two-pair.

      Now I don't think T8 is such a likely preflop L/C hand, but 33 (and very occasionally TT given some villains limp all hands) makes perfect sense.

      So when I see a C/C and then C/R I should expect to mostly be seeing 33, occasionally TT and even less often T8o.

      It may seem completely retarded at first but does that make 88 a fold on this turn? I actually think it does........


      Flame away guys! :f_biggrin: :f_biggrin: :f_biggrin:
  • 17 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello DaPhunk,

      By the way would be nice if you converted with hidden names. :P

      About the flop I would just Bet the flop bigger and I am not really getting away. Whatever he has there ain't that many hands what beat us. It's still NL2 and you might even sometimes see KK/AA played this way. :D

      Best Regards.
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Originally posted by veriz
      By the way would be nice if you converted with hidden names. :P

      I tried but for some reason it only converts hero name.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by DaPhunk
      Originally posted by veriz
      By the way would be nice if you converted with hidden names. :P

      I tried but for some reason it only converts hero name.
      Try maybe weaktight.com, a bit better converter.
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      I remember trying weaktight back in the day :D Is there an option to convert hands and not just post them on the website? I'm not familiar enough with the website.

      oh yes, regarding flop betsizing, I was originally going to make it $0.22 but decided this just seemed very strong and mid-PP's and gutshots would have a harder time calling to float me so I downsized it. There arn't that many draws or hands that will spazz out on this board and pay me off.

      If the villain places where more like EP limp and EP ISO I would have bet larger but thought the later positions warranted a weaker perception of villain pre-flop range.



      How exactly do you work out how much to bet? I just don't know how to work out what betsize would give you the most value.

      Smaller betsize more hands call but you get less value per hand, Larger betsize you get lots more value per hand but less can call you.


      I think this question would likely be more pertinent at higher stakes than NL2. Maybe NL50, NL100 or NL200? NL2 villains probably arn't looking closely enough to make a difference.
    • ilovemagic
      ilovemagic
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2011 Posts: 1,019
      i am never folding on that board. bet/raise all the way.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      I remember trying weaktight back in the day :D Is there an option to convert hands and not just post them on the website? I'm not familiar enough with the website.

      Yeah, you can like hide it from other people. There is a option where you can pick: a) Public or not; b) My Friends ; c) My groups.

      How exactly do you work out how much to bet? I just don't know how to work out what betsize would give you the most value.

      Usually when it's draw-heavy I of course Bet it bigger. If it's very small pot I also Bet it bigger and especially I like to bet it big when I am against a fish, why? Cause if a fish has a hand he is going to pay anyways, for example like a board A63 and we have 66.

      Smaller betsize more hands call but you get less value per hand, Larger betsize you get lots more value per hand but less can call you.

      Smaller bets I would usually do with mediocre hands or fold equity. We don't have to balance on those stakes anyways our bet size and especially if it's somehow connected and SD/FD could be possible we could easily bet for value.

      I think this question would likely be more pertinent at higher stakes than NL2. Maybe NL50, NL100 or NL200? NL2 villains probably arn't looking closely enough to make a difference.

      Not really, people don't adjust. :D The case also with betting the flop is that if we make too small bets then at some point might be the pot so small on the river where we might even have to over-bet.
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      I like making huge bets (and overbets) on earlier streets vs known whales. Super loose calling station types to build the pot up for a nicely sized shove on river.

      I don't really use over-bets or potsize bets against people I deem to be regulars. I was wondering if you do?




      Oh, and a second point. On the higher stakes is it common for mediocre hands to be a smaller bet and excellent hands to bet larger? Can this information be used to gain an extra edge?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by DaPhunk
      I don't really use over-bets or potsize bets against people I deem to be regulars. I was wondering if you do?
      Depends a lot on the reg and our dynamics. But yeah I do, we can easily balance overbets with made hands and even bluffs. Sometimes with regs it's even better to use over-bet line to gain more fold equity, especially on a drawy board. Guess it's a lot matter of the dynamics but usually against regs I use it less unless I know more about him.
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Interesting, what sort of situation do you use overbet bluffs in? I would imagine a very solid read on opponents hand-range to use this technique?

      I'm afraid to say that I havn't delved into over-bet bluffing haha. Whenever I saw a spot I thought it might work (actually because I think he's calling to a normal sized bet) I was like "naaaah, he could be a fish or find this betsize too suspicous and just call us" :f_biggrin:
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Usually I do it myself when I also have some kind of semi-bluff hand, just in case I would get called I have some backdoor and not with total bluff. For example having FD on turn and he made a CB and we donk-overbet cause we could still play this way as well with sets to avoid him Checking behind with draws.
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      So a good opponent to try that line on would be one who cbets a lot and has a low turn barrel % indicating he can play weak on turn? But then again if he plays weak turn we probably just get our free rivercard anyway....

      Maybe it would be better to do it vs a player who is barrel happy actually but doesn't have a significant stacksize and we don't like the theory of turn C/R.


      hmm, interesting to think who we would exploit with this line. Some metagame of our own play could help too.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Doubt that you going to be exploited that often on micro-stakes, we could talk about that on medium stakes where there are more thinking players.
    • ilovemagic
      ilovemagic
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2011 Posts: 1,019
      Great convo guys. I learned a bit bout overbetting. Thanks :)
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      hahaha, nice <3 :f_love:
    • mrbeer9999
      mrbeer9999
      Basic
      Joined: 11.12.2010 Posts: 182
      Never folding this, I would shove over his turn raise.
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      How come you are basic mrbeer? I don't quite understand...

      guess you need to deposit onto a new account or pass the quiz to get bronze, I take it your active on more than one forum though?


      edit; I should probably say something about the hand.

      Why shove when villain represents a very narrow value range. Board is not scary so not too many scare-cards and his bluffs/over-pairs will be more likely to continue river vs a call rather than a shove. What bluff is he ever getting odds to call to?

      Especially as I think this looks super strong representing 33 (occasionally TT) why should I not just call and let him bluff of his stack on the river?
    • mrbeer9999
      mrbeer9999
      Basic
      Joined: 11.12.2010 Posts: 182
      Originally posted by DaPhunk
      How come you are basic mrbeer? I don't quite understand...

      guess you need to deposit onto a new account or pass the quiz to get bronze, I take it your active on more than one forum though?
      2+2 forums have been down for a couple of weeks, I go a bit mental if I can't argue about poker with people so I found this site. I think I was already signed up from a couple of years ago, never been active, never claimed the $50 sign up. Apparently I passed the quiz, don't remember doing it though.