[NL20-NL50] Sh Nl25

    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Just have 93 hands on villain and he plays 15/12

      What about call flop? You prefer 3bet fold? Or we have enough implieds to call?


      $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
      PartyPoker
      5 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      UTG casualz938 ($27.25)
      CO pokerdesasta ($26.61)
      BTN yourrrrs2 ($25)
      SB OgogoPUA ($19.32)
      BB Shaky92 ($27.40)

      Pre-Flop: ($0.35, 5 players) casualz938 is UTG K :spade: Q :spade:
      casualz938 raises to $0.75, pokerdesasta calls $0.75, 3 folds

      Flop: 8 :heart: J :spade: 8 :spade: ($1.85, 2 players)
      casualz938 bets $1.17, pokerdesasta raises to $3.25, casualz938 calls $2.08

      Turn: Q :diamond: ($8.35, 2 players)
      casualz938 checks, pokerdesasta bets $5.95, casualz938 calls $5.95

      River: 3 :club: ($20.25, 2 players)
      casualz938 checks, pokerdesasta bets $16.66, casualz938 folds

      Final Pot: $20.25

      pokerdesasta wins $52.56 (net +$25.95)

      casualz938 lost $9.95
  • 6 replies
    • jachis
      jachis
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.04.2008 Posts: 745
      Interesting spot, I doubt villain would be raising JJ or 88 here, only hand that makes sense to me is QQ, which he might have decided not to 3bet pre and the raise flop with and you even have a blocker to that. Doubt hes flatting any 8x hands which also could make sense.
      Seems spwey but I think I would like to 3bet the flop. You're oop so calling doesnt seem to be a good option.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Farmarchist,

      Could you please hide the nicknames and so it would show you as Hero. :) Just for the privacy of other users, thanks.

      About the play calling on such a flop is pretty bad and I wouldn't have done it. You have to make your decision right on the flop either you go for the 3bet and get rid of his semi-bluff/bluff type of hands or just Bet/Fold it. You might easily even have reversed implied odds or whatsoever.

      As played I don't really see any point in calling the turn and folding the river. If I am calling the turn then mainly putting him on a bluff cause he can't really represent much there or either just fold the turn again.

      Best Regards.
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Originally posted by veriz


      About the play calling on such a flop is pretty bad and I wouldn't have done it.
      Hey veriz,

      Thanks for your answer but can you please give more details about the the quote??

      I don't know why calling is bad? We have enought implieds vs good Jx and 8x. 88/JJ he almost never holds.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Because you are OOP, you can never be sure what kind of range he does there. He could as well have 8x/JJ hands there.

      Why do you exclude JJ from his range? What's your further plan on the turn when you don't hit? :) You are also OOP, so how do you plan to play the hand profitable enough?
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Originally posted by veriz
      Because you are OOP, you can never be sure what kind of range he does there. He could as well have 8x/JJ hands there.

      Why do you exclude JJ from his range? What's your further plan on the turn when you don't hit? :) You are also OOP, so how do you plan to play the hand profitable enough?
      - isn't it good that there can be 8x in his range ?? (for calling)

      - Well, JJ actually can be in there but many players would only call flop here to let villain hit something. Plan OTT is re-evalute en see how good of a price I get to make a call, otherwise fold.
      __

      How can a 3bet be profitable. So it is either for value or as a bluff. But we can't do it for value since we have approximatly 42% equity or something if we include soms bluffs in his range.
      Also a bluff cant be that profitable because he hasn't that many bluffs in his range (we can't say he has without good history), and when he shoves we've made a pretty bad play. We are than always up against an 8 which is better to just make the call against and hope to hit.


      Please tell me if I'm wrong :)

      Farma
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      - isn't it good that there can be 8x in his range ?? (for calling)

      Not really, cause you could have reversed implied odds while he could hit the FH + of course as I mentioned we are OOP. He could have some kind of 8x hand the X could be which completes your flush -> for him gives FH.

      - Well, JJ actually can be in there but many players would only call flop here to let villain hit something. Plan OTT is re-evalute en see how good of a price I get to make a call, otherwise fold.

      True, but you never know them. They might as well raise. :D

      How can a 3bet be profitable. So it is either for value or as a bluff. But we can't do it for value since we have approximatly 42% equity or something if we include soms bluffs in his range.

      If we are against just Jx, we have very good equity. We could be there against something like TT/99 which are just planning to fold their hand and even if called we still have decent equity. Could as well even be raising with worse draws which also may fold.

      Also a bluff cant be that profitable because he hasn't that many bluffs in his range (we can't say he has without good history), and when he shoves we've made a pretty bad play. We are than always up against an 8 which is better to just make the call against and hope to hit.

      We can't assume that, as you said we don't have history. I would assume that kind of guy who is pretty nitty in SH games has more of those PPs in his range which could be playing this way as I described above about TT/99.