pure bluff

    • Dippy19
      Dippy19
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.12.2007 Posts: 1,346
      I just read the semi bluff and pure bluff articles and something cought my attention. It says that you should bluff on one street where you have the odds, example: If you have a 10$ pot and have to bet 1$, you have to bluff if you have 10% chances to win.

      I was wondering, I have just put up 3 more stats on my elephant hud, fold flop, fold turn, fold river, can they be used in the following way:
      The pot is 15$, the bet is 1$. I need 15% to win and the guy has 20% fold river, so I can make this a profitable bluff(we are on the river).
  • 19 replies
    • Yoghi
      Yoghi
      Black
      Joined: 10.09.2007 Posts: 14,387
      The fold to xxx bet is very helpful yes. But it doesn't mean he is going to fold 20% of the time, it just means that he folds on 20% of the rivers. There are rivers which he will never fold on, and there are rivers where he will fold quite often.
    • Dippy19
      Dippy19
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.12.2007 Posts: 1,346
      Yeah, I know, but can it be used as some kind of bluff pot odds, like pot odds for draws. I know you have to take reads in to account.

      Oh and I'm talking about using this in a pot where the villain plays passive. Like sort of an indicator as to if a continuation bet on the flop, turn or river is profitable.

      I'm kind off sticking to a rule that I bluff(semi or pure) till the street where he has the highest fold %, if it's at least 35%, provided he doesn't raise me. Is that stupid or is it ok?
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      I like your idea. You can add bluffbets on good cards (scarecards) and stop doing on bad cards.

      The problem wih the % fold to riverbet is that it might be that i results from a different play. Let's say this guy check the flop and turn a lot and his oppononts does so too but now he improved on the river and bets. The passive one is folding now.
      If you now play against him you bet the flop and turn as a bluff but now his range is much tighter since he might have folded his air (as he would too if his first opponent would have bet too). This way he might have a high % fold to riverbet but he doesn't fold that much when he called the flop or/and turn.
      Maybe we can say that in your example above that he only folds 15% o the time which would make your bet profitable. (Subtracting 5% should be good. If the values differ more it's only better for you.)

      (I hope it's not too confusing. I used the word 'now' very often. Soory for that.)
    • Dippy19
      Dippy19
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.12.2007 Posts: 1,346
      huh... I think I get it :D

      But if you start adding bluff bets to scare cards you should fold to a raise, right? I mean the scare card could be on of his outs.
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Right. But be careful because it might be a rebluff. This is a never ending story and can become very complex (and I haven't mastered it yet). :/
    • sismis
      sismis
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.10.2006 Posts: 352
      for less then 20% pot you can only get fold by uncompleted draw or tiny pair so i would prefer somewhat bigger bet then that in any case. when you do normal river bet you have to fold to a big sized reraise on river with almost any hand that isnt very very strong(if you are not commited) and if you bet smallish some fishes will start bluff reraising you and you have very hard time calling those raises sometimes.
      and if you bet almost pot size on two streets and got called then dont even try bluffing ;)
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Originally posted by sismis
      for less then 20% pot you can only get fold by uncompleted draw or tiny pair so i would prefer somewhat bigger bet then that in any case. when you do normal river bet you have to fold to a big sized reraise on river with almost any hand that isnt very very strong(if you are not commited) and if you bet smallish some fishes will start bluff reraising you and you have very hard time calling those raises sometimes.
      and if you bet almost pot size on two streets and got called then dont even try bluffing ;)
      I quote it before you edit. :D
    • sismis
      sismis
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.10.2006 Posts: 352
      i wont edit this time :)
    • Dippy19
      Dippy19
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.12.2007 Posts: 1,346
      Originally posted by sismis
      for less then 20% pot you can only get fold by uncompleted draw or tiny pair so i would prefer somewhat bigger bet then that in any case. when you do normal river bet you have to fold to a big sized reraise on river with almost any hand that isnt very very strong(if you are not commited) and if you bet smallish some fishes will start bluff reraising you and you have very hard time calling those raises sometimes.
      and if you bet almost pot size on two streets and got called then dont even try bluffing ;)
      OK, so next time before I start playing I'll heck into Pokerstars server and change their software so I can resize my bets in FL hold'em. Boy would I like to see the looks on other players faces when I make a 20$ pot size bet in a 0.5$/1$ FL game :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
    • PokerHammer
      PokerHammer
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.08.2007 Posts: 209
      Originally posted by Dippy19
      I was wondering, I have just put up 3 more stats on my elephant hud, fold flop, fold turn, fold river, can they be used in the following way:
      The pot is 15$, the bet is 1$. I need 15% to win and the guy has 20% fold river, so I can make this a profitable bluff(we are on the river).

      Don't bother using those stats until you have at least 880-1000 hands on your opponent, they take a very long time to converge.
    • CoreySteel
      CoreySteel
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 3,366
      Originally posted by sismis
      i wont edit this time :)
      sismis is drunk... again :)
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      when will NL players stop visiting FL forums?
    • TribunCaesar
      TribunCaesar
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      Joined: 29.04.2007 Posts: 13,264
      [x] pure gold
      :heart:
    • sismis
      sismis
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      Joined: 27.10.2006 Posts: 352
      again me. sorry guys. but there is no such thing as "pure bluff" in FL so its not my fault :D
    • Yoghi
      Yoghi
      Black
      Joined: 10.09.2007 Posts: 14,387
      Originally posted by sismis
      again me. sorry guys. but there is no such thing as "pure bluff" in FL so its not my fault :D
      only 1 possible answer to this:

      wat
    • sismis
      sismis
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.10.2006 Posts: 352
      ok then bet on 3 streets with 5 high on AKT flop if you want. im out of here :evil:
    • Yoghi
      Yoghi
      Black
      Joined: 10.09.2007 Posts: 14,387
      What would you call that then? Valuebetting?
    • PokerHammer
      PokerHammer
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.08.2007 Posts: 209
      Originally posted by Yoghi
      What would you call that then? Valuebetting?
      :D
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      Originally posted by PokerHammer
      Originally posted by Yoghi
      What would you call that then? Valuebetting?
      :D
      obv aggressively playing gutshot runner runner draw