[NL2-NL10] NL5 SH KK vs aggrofish, A high flop

    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      Everest - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      CO: $4.89
      BTN: $4.95
      SB: $7.85
      BB: $4.90
      Hero (UTG): $5.21
      MP: $5.85

      SB posts SB $0.03, BB posts BB $0.05

      Pre Flop: (pot: $0.08) Hero has K:club: K:spade:

      Hero raises to $0.18, MP calls $0.18, fold, fold, fold, fold

      Flop: ($0.44, 2 players) A:club: 6:heart: 9:spade:
      Hero checks, MP bets $0.05, Hero calls $0.05

      Turn: ($0.54, 2 players) J:spade:
      Hero checks, MP bets $0.54, Hero calls $0.54

      River: ($1.62, 2 players) K:diamond:
      Hero checks, MP bets $1.62, Hero raises to $4.44 and is all-in, fold

      Hero wins $4.54

      20 hands, 89/11/5af.
      i think this player jumps down at the opportunity to bet pot at every sign of weakness.
      fine to turn my hand into bluff-catcher to keep ranges wide? by cbetting myself i think i force weaker hands out.
  • 7 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Tomaloc,

      Letting him Bet with weaker hands is totally fine, although I am not a huge fan of calling the pot size Bet on the turn without even knowing much about him. I'd rather just let it go while we are OOP and will be difficult to Call the river again. Unless you planning to Call both streets.

      Best Regards.
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      Originally posted by veriz
      Unless you planning to Call both streets.
      yes this was the plan, i expected two potsize bets.

      i know it sucks to call two potsize bets vs "unknown" but do you think it's doable vs such a player? i know folding is just safer but these days i'm trying to not shy away from postflop maniacs and variance spots, shows up as rollercoasters on graph :f_eek: don't want it to just be -EV though

      think it probably would be better to just sit there and wait for some "good enough" mid TP?
    • Spungeh
      Spungeh
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.06.2011 Posts: 1,212
      Hes minbet you on flop.. and you've called? Lol? Re-raise him right here.. even if hes holding the Ax some of the time.

      Turn.. your bluff catching? You should be geting value more, and yeah hes barrelling.. but hes an unknown.. so shouldnt be c/calling.

      River.. raises was for what reason? You cant get any value.. unless you think hes calling with Ax hand.. otherwise hes calling with TQ etc.. which all beat you.. probably just a call here
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      you play higher and successfully so i respect your advice, but i don't get it at all this time...
      you want me to bet/raise when i'm likely to only isolate against better and just call when i'm finally likely to be ahead?

      reraise flop, bet turn... and get value from what? worse than Ax will continue? fold to further action? what to do later being oop?
      imo if there's any value it's by bluffcatching, since this player apparently likes to pick on weakness...
      and why just call river? i only lose to QT and AA there... while there are some twopair and maybe even Ax with which he may spazcall with, don't know what he goes to showdown with.
    • Spungeh
      Spungeh
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.06.2011 Posts: 1,212
      Originally posted by Tomaloc
      you play higher and successfully so i respect your advice, but i don't get it at all this time...
      you want me to bet/raise when i'm likely to only isolate against better and just call when i'm finally likely to be ahead?

      reraise flop, bet turn... and get value from what? worse than Ax will continue? fold to further action? what to do later being oop?
      imo if there's any value it's by bluffcatching, since this player apparently likes to pick on weakness...
      and why just call river? i only lose to QT and AA there... while there are some twopair and maybe even Ax with which he may spazcall with, don't know what he goes to showdown with.
      Sorry.. ill try to explain a little better..

      Basically.. with the A board.. its a scare card for you, but its also a scare card for him.. (if he isnt holding the A) .. now there are only 4 Aces in the entire deck, and 1 of those is on the board.. resulting in only 3 possible Aces.. yes it is going to happen sometimes, but most of the time its not.. the reason you should bet on the flop is because he is betting 5c into a 44c pot.. this is almost 1/10 of the pot.. If he was to bet around 20-25c.. then a call would be ok.. but a min raise, no matter what your holding you should raise up.. He will more than likely fold.. whereas you are showing weakness here whereas you are holding an extremely strong hand.. as no flush draws, and beating all PPs now.. as he would DEFINETITLy bet higher with AA or Ax.

      Does this make sense?

      Turn.. get value from FDs, Jx hands that have just hit.. Mainly draws though. You are still a favourite, fold to a reraise is then the hard decision, as you never raised the flop.. he may be 3betting with Jx or FDs.

      River to call.. it just doesnt make sense to shove.. yes you may get some spaz call with Jx, but QQ, TT, etc are not calling now.. the ONLy hands calling are the ones that beat you.. If this makes sense?

      I have added you as a friend so I can explain more if need be on skype.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      It's better to just CB yourself then if you don't want to turn your hand into pot-size bluff bets which will be difficult to Call. :)

      Check/Raising the flop doesn't make sense either, what worse will call anyways? :P
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      Originally posted by Spungeh
      flop
      right... but if we think we are ahead most often why do we want him to fold? :D i can understand raising with trash (i think i'd try it myself) but we have good showdown value, as you've said too.

      Originally posted by Spungeh
      turn/river
      i agree that against such a player we may even be ahead of his reraise/shove range...
      however... sounds just like a huge leveling war :f_mad: and even harder to engage in while i haven't seen him show down a hand yet... which may be an argument for "fold turn" ;(

      with the bluffcatching line i want him to think something like "whatever, any pair is good" :f_eek:

      river i just think we won't agree ever :D besides the hands that beat me i think he 100% calls AJ, 66, 99, JJ, A9 at least, probably every other twopair also.
      he folds every random weak pair, busted draw and probably even all Ax too... but that's fine ofc