Shoving preflop kk

    • mute20
      mute20
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.01.2011 Posts: 563
      Is it worth shoving preflop kk if you have multiple 3+ people including yourself and you know that someone has AA?
  • 17 replies
    • staktas
      staktas
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.03.2011 Posts: 1,346
      How can you know that?

      And answering your question. Is it worth to cross the street not on the zebra crossing to save couple of minutes, if you know that you will get hit by car?
    • samson11
      samson11
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.05.2010 Posts: 18
      I would say if you play zoom you might as well, because I played it last night and every dog ran right over me. However, in the normal world I would suggest folding KK's when you are facing AA's no matter who comes along for the ride.
    • muppe1show1
      muppe1show1
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.02.2011 Posts: 269
      huh, do we have a superuser in tha house :evil:
      Ot I never fold KK pre
    • Meda1985
      Meda1985
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      Joined: 26.01.2011 Posts: 233
      Yupp!!! If you've got some special abilities and you know other ppl's cards, then fold to an over-pair no matter what you're holding! If you don't have super-powers, then facing three, call in cash game (could be that Aces are dispersed), but fold in tourney, IF they are already all-in! If only one (even two), go all-in, don't think for a second! There is only six possible hands that beat you!!!
    • jonnyjm
      jonnyjm
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      Joined: 24.03.2008 Posts: 447
      Originally posted by mute20
      Is it worth shoving preflop kk if you have multiple 3+ people including yourself and you know that someone has AA?
      It depends how much you like money.

      If you like money a a lot then you should be shoving all day long.

      If you do not like money then don't shove.


      What else ar you going to do? Call and see a flop? What would you do then if it comes J high and get bet into? Fold? I don't think so.

      Calling pre with intentions of seeing if its an A high board or not? I don't think so.


      But obvs the most important question is: "Is the person you "know" has AA a nit or not?"
    • tomthebom28
      tomthebom28
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      Joined: 14.12.2008 Posts: 56
      I shoved my KK three way allin today. One guy had QQ, the other had J10s. Guess what the flop was, JJ9
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
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      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      if you know one of them has AA, then why would you ever want to commit the rest of your stack as a 18/82 dog :f_confused:

      the question however is how do you know... and are you really sure that you know? :f_biggrin:
    • Mikus8
      Mikus8
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      Joined: 06.10.2011 Posts: 240
      Originally posted by tomthebom28
      I shoved my KK three way allin today. One guy had QQ, the other had J10s. Guess what the flop was, JJ9
      I guess this says enough to OP, don't play KK in a multiway pots.
    • skaloon
      skaloon
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.09.2008 Posts: 43
      example. incredibly tight rock (stats like 5/5). that shows just premium hands when plays, shoves as 3-bet or 4-bet before the action comes to you - i would probably fold KK at this spot, especially if there was another tigh player raise before the rock. it's just smells like AA too much. any other situation - no fold
    • pavels4444
      pavels4444
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      Joined: 09.09.2010 Posts: 1,539
      fold it, with KK you have no other option, it always loses
    • mrbeer9999
      mrbeer9999
      Basic
      Joined: 11.12.2010 Posts: 182
      Obviously if you know someone has AA you don't shove but you would certainly want to set mine.

      Generally it's +EV to stack off pre, I have to say though if a nit opened UTG and another nit 3-bet them and a third nit shoved I'm probably folding my cowboys because nit3's range is exclusively AA/KK. There are also tournament bubble situations where you can fold KK pre.
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Originally posted by mute20
      Is it worth shoving preflop kk if you have multiple 3+ people including yourself and you know that someone has AA?
      No that would be dumb. Why would you want to get it in when you KNOW your a 20-80 dog?

      And yes, you can know that someone has exactly AA. After playing FR zoom for a while there's a lot of spots where they are getting it in with KK+ so 4bet to get it in after they 3bet your UTG open is just dumb. Call to setmine/keep their range wider and play postflop.
    • surfwell1818
      surfwell1818
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.11.2009 Posts: 137
      I folded a preflop 3 way pot once with KK.
      The other 2 hands were KK and AA. (792JJ Board)
      You just never know?You could be drawing dead for your whole stack.
    • staktas
      staktas
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.03.2011 Posts: 1,346
      It's hardly possible to be drawing dead preflop. Even even if there's no K in the deck, KK v AA, can get flushes, straights, etc.

      Just sayin.
    • surfwell1818
      surfwell1818
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.11.2009 Posts: 137
      Yeah I know about the straight and flush preflop possibilities.
      I meant that once the hand was over and the board complete; I would have lost my stack and drawn dead....
      Oh well.No biggie
      Peace
      Simon
    • Krisstef
      Krisstef
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.10.2011 Posts: 23
      Well if the guy shoves all in and turns over his aces you would obviously need better than 4 to 1 odds to make the call profitable, which you will rarely if ever get.
      I have not played zoom so i am unsure as to how tight/loose the games actually are. My observations for no-zoom games are that 90% of the people play QQ KK AA and maybe AK in absolutely the same way, so you cant fold KK
      You can rarely be sure the guy has AA imo. I think i read somewhere Negreanu saying he's folded KK twice in his life. Again, not really sure how valuable my opinion actually is, as i do not play zoom.
      Best of luck.

      Regards,

      Chris
    • FlashDavin
      FlashDavin
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2011 Posts: 421
      I think in zoom it is quite possible to lay it down.

      There are like 3/2 nits that only play KK, QQ, AA and AK and they fold their AK and QQ to 3bets.

      If I see two of those guys get it in, I fold my KK (though it's never happened).

      I have never actually folded KK preflop even though sometimes I'm almost certain he has AA. Sometimes they show up weaker hands like AJo and that's what makes it all worthwhile.