SAGE + Russian Roulette

    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Well, the poker site I play on has these things called Russian Roulette, $1 buy in + $0.05 rake.

      You get 100 chips and blinds are 5/10.

      Is it a good idea to use SAGE and play a lot of these, and if so, what power values should I use for R=10 ?

      The table in the article says R All-In from Small Blind
      Call from Big Blind
      1 17 always
      2 21 17
      3 22 24
      4 23 26
      5 24 28
      6 25 29
      7 26 30

      so based on that R=10 gives to 29 to push from SB and 33 to call from BB correct?

      Will the variance of Russian Roulette be too high for this to be a good idea without a couple hundred BI or should I be fine?

      Thanks,
      metza
  • 8 replies
    • Wohmfg
      Wohmfg
      Silver
      Joined: 12.11.2009 Posts: 500
      Is this heads up?
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Yes, SAGE is only for heads up.
    • Wohmfg
      Wohmfg
      Silver
      Joined: 12.11.2009 Posts: 500
      I would have thought it would be better to use ICM pushing and calling ranges as SAGE is a simplified model. I'm not sure though.
    • pzhon
      pzhon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      The ICM is not relevant heads-up. It just tells you to maximize chips.

      Sage is an approximation to the Nash equilibrium strategy. Sage is for live play where you don't have a Nash chart bookmarked in your web browser. It is better to use the Nash equilibrium strategy than Sage.

      You should be able to do even better than Nash because your opponents in a $1 tournament will probably deviate from the Nash equilibrium in predictable ways. I would guess that if you have folded a couple of small blinds in a row, your opponents will call much too tightly the next time, so you can push hands which are outside the Nash pushing range like 65o.
    • Wohmfg
      Wohmfg
      Silver
      Joined: 12.11.2009 Posts: 500
      The Nash ranges are based on the ICM though, are they not?

      Couldn't you use something like the ICM trainer to practice as the ICM trainer assumes players are using Nash ranges?

      I guess I should have said "Nash pushing and calling ranges" rather than "ICM pushing and calling ranges" in my other post.
    • pzhon
      pzhon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      Originally posted by Wohmfg
      The Nash ranges are based on the ICM though, are they not?

      Couldn't you use something like the ICM trainer to practice as the ICM trainer assumes players are using Nash ranges?

      I guess I should have said "Nash pushing and calling ranges" rather than "ICM pushing and calling ranges" in my other post.
      ICM Trainer and HoldemResources.net compute the Nash equilibrium according to the ICM. In heads-up situations, the ICM is exactly the same as the chip count. You can use ICM Trainer to study the heads-up Nash equilibrium, but it is misleading to say that you are studying the ICM.

      I suggest having a heads-up Nash equilibrium chart visible even when you are playing tournaments with more players because of my Golden Rule for pushing from the small blind, as I described in a video by that name.
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Thanks for the responses. Unfortunately I can't access the NASH article yet as its in Gold section (I'm sure I could find it elsewhere but too lazy lol), but so far things have been going good. Played about 30 or so games and am up 6BI, a lot of people have very high call range so with SAGE I'm usually 65%+ to win the all-in. :f_biggrin:
    • Wohmfg
      Wohmfg
      Silver
      Joined: 12.11.2009 Posts: 500
      Originally posted by pzhon
      Originally posted by Wohmfg
      The Nash ranges are based on the ICM though, are they not?

      Couldn't you use something like the ICM trainer to practice as the ICM trainer assumes players are using Nash ranges?

      I guess I should have said "Nash pushing and calling ranges" rather than "ICM pushing and calling ranges" in my other post.
      ICM Trainer and HoldemResources.net compute the Nash equilibrium according to the ICM. In heads-up situations, the ICM is exactly the same as the chip count. You can use ICM Trainer to study the heads-up Nash equilibrium, but it is misleading to say that you are studying the ICM.

      I suggest having a heads-up Nash equilibrium chart visible even when you are playing tournaments with more players because of my Golden Rule for pushing from the small blind, as I described in a video by that name.
      Ah ok that cleared things up for me. :)