[NL20-NL50] [sh] NL 25 zoom- flop fh playing vs river raise

    • DeMarcohsp
      DeMarcohsp
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,975
      Poker Stars $25.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players

      BTN: $32.24 - VPIP: 14, PFR: 11, 3B: 1, AF: 4.0, Hands: 215
      Hero (SB): $34.54 -
      BB: $24.40 - VPIP: 14, PFR: 11, 3B: 8, AF: 2.0, Hands: 35
      UTG: $49.62 - VPIP: 29, PFR: 23, 3B: 0, AF: 4.0, Hands: 35
      MP: $45.81 - VPIP: 42, PFR: 8, 3B: 0, AF: 1.0, Hands: 12
      CO: $42.92 - VPIP: 28, PFR: 22, 3B: 8, AF: 1.5, Hands: 93

      Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is SB with 9 :diamond: 9 :spade:
      3 folds, BTN raises to $0.75, Hero calls $0.65, 1 fold

      Flop: ($1.75) A :heart: A :spade: 9 :heart: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BTN bets $1.01, Hero calls $1.01

      Turn: ($3.77) T :spade: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BTN checks

      River: ($3.77) 3 :club: (2 players)
      Hero bets $2.00, BTN raises to $5.95, [B]Hero ????[/b]
      'I'd expect villain to continue aggression on the turn with his Ax hands. Maybe he will sometimes check back with AT/A9 to let me draw for free to get some more money later from me.

      River raise is little unexpected but I don't see much value in 3betting as I'd discount his trips combos and if he is on a bluff he is not calling, if he shoves I can't call (always beat imo).
      Better hands that would call a 3bet - 33? Ak?
  • 16 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello DeMarcohsp,

      I would also see him 2nd barreling most of the range there on the turn which is like Ax. Therefore I wouldn't consider either 3betting cause you just make worse to fold and better one could just 4bet and we would have tough time.

      What was your turn plan or when did you plan to get money from him? Why didn't you prefer Check/Raising the flop?

      Best Regards.
    • DeMarcohsp
      DeMarcohsp
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,975
      My plan was to x/c x/c x/shove river to get max value from his Ax as I would usually see him 3barreling there.

      Also I think this line gives me the opportunity to get lots of value from his bluffs and also to give my opponent the chance to improve to a second best hand.
    • CallumN
      CallumN
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      Joined: 04.01.2012 Posts: 1,141
      Just jam and stack 33 plz
    • DeMarcohsp
      DeMarcohsp
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      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,975
      Originally posted by CallumN
      Just jam and stack 33 plz
      Thought about that too but aren't there more possible combos of slowplayed A9/AT than the 3 combos of 33?
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      My line would be x/c x/r bet/broke.
      So what is best, x/r turn or x/r river? We get value from a lot of draws if we raise turn?

      Callumn, don't you think we really rep FH's with a jam? So he can fold AQ/(AK)?
      It's a really really weird line imo... It's like bluffs or 33, so I'd raise to $15 or something..
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      I am still not inclined to raise/ship it for value. Doubt that the equity in long run is going to be enough vs the range which calls.

      Lets say we raise to $15 -> we invest $12 which means we include the $9 also into the pot if he Calls. We need ~40% equity and not to talk about if he shoves, what then? We never-ever going to be ahead. Vs the expected range which call us:

      Board: A:heart: A:spade: 9:heart:  T:spade:  3:club:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      UTG    72.73%  72.73%   0.00% { 33, ATs-A9s, ATo-A9o }
      UTG+1  27.27%  27.27%   0.00% { 9d9s }

      While we can never even be sure if 33 even calls. You ain't getting called from bluffs, so doesn't make sense them to add into the range nor I doubt he ever would Call with just pure Ax -> it would Bet the turn as well.
    • CallumN
      CallumN
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2012 Posts: 1,141
      It's a really really weird line imo... It's like bluffs or 33, so I'd raise to $15 or something..

      I would put a large sum of money on this only ever being 33 if he raises for value. Do people really check back FH's that often?

      I would only give this guy 2 combo of AT 1 remaining A9 and 1 A3. Then every combo of 33.

      This is classic zeebo therom when we jam river.

      Vs a 'realistic' range of how the hand is played it gets a lot closer.

      equity win tie pots won pots tied
      Hand 0: 57.143% 57.14% 00.00% 4 0.00 { 33, AcTc, AdTd, Ac9c, Ad3d }
      Hand 1: 42.857% 42.86% 00.00% 3 0.00 { 9d9s }

      Even then I dont think he ever has 4 combos of Ax for a FH here
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
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      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Originally posted by Farmarchist
      My line would be x/c x/r bet/broke.
      So what is best, x/r turn or x/r river? We get value from a lot of draws if we raise turn?
    • CallumN
      CallumN
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      Joined: 04.01.2012 Posts: 1,141
      Personally I hate turn CR lines but I think on this texture its prob the best line to cr turn
    • DeMarcohsp
      DeMarcohsp
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      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,975
      Did not know that this concept had such a fancy name by itself. :D .

      CallumN why do you think it's best to x/r turn than river?
    • CallumN
      CallumN
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2012 Posts: 1,141
      I will repeat again. I usually hate turn cr lines!

      This is because CR on the turn reveals the strength of our hand most of the time.

      The reason its not so bad on this texture is because:

      1. Villian is never folding Ax to a turn CR
      2. Villian will call all possible draws vs a turn CR
      3. Villian will not bluff the river with his missed draws as it looks like we have Ax most of the time and we are not folding

      The main reason for me check raising the turn is because I dont expect him to bluff the river with his draws. So when we raise turn we get value from his strong hands aswell as his draws. If we just check raise on the river I think we only face a bet from him when he has a made hand and he checks back all of his missed draws on the river
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      equity win tie pots won pots tied
      Hand 0: 57.143% 57.14% 00.00% 4 0.00 { 33, AcTc, AdTd, Ac9c, Ad3d }
      Hand 1: 42.857% 42.86% 00.00% 3 0.00 { 9d9s }

      Doubt that he is Checking behind the turn with A3 ever unless he timed out -> lost connection or just misclicked.
    • CallumN
      CallumN
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      Joined: 04.01.2012 Posts: 1,141
      All the more reason to jam then :P
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by CallumN
      All the more reason to jam then :P
      How comes if the equity goes down? -> towards the range & calculation I posted.
    • DeMarcohsp
      DeMarcohsp
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      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,975
      Well in you calculation you put all the better fh's in his slowplaying range and I think that is a little far from the truth.

      I would agree more with the range posted by CallumN with only 3 combos of slowplayed fh's
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by DeMarcohsp
      Well in you calculation you put all the better fh's in his slowplaying range and I think that is a little far from the truth.

      I would agree more with the range posted by CallumN with only 3 combos of slowplayed fh's
      True that but then I wouldn't remove TT either from Check behind range.