[NL2-NL10] Bet sizing for quads

    • JimmyChooEsq
      JimmyChooEsq
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.04.2011 Posts: 63
      I was trying to get villan (40/17/8.3/83 VP/PFR/3b/hands) to bet so I didn't scare him off. Should I have lead the betting from the flop? If so, what sizes should I have used?


      IPoker, $0.02/$0.04 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      MP2: $9.20 (230 bb)
      MP3: $5.14 (128.5 bb)
      CO: $1.54 (38.5 bb)
      BTN: $6.01 (150.3 bb)
      SB: $1.08 (27 bb)
      Hero (BB): $5.49 (137.3 bb)
      UTG+1: $5.29 (132.3 bb)
      UTG+2: $1 (25 bb)
      MP1: $4.89 (122.2 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with 8 8
      2 folds, MP1 calls $0.04, 5 folds, Hero checks

      Flop: ($0.10) 8 5 J (2 players)
      Hero checks, MP1 bets $0.05, Hero calls $0.05

      Turn: ($0.20) A (2 players)
      Hero checks, MP1 bets $0.10, Hero calls $0.10

      River: ($0.40) 8 (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.04, MP1 calls $0.04

      Results: $0.48 pot ($0.03 rake)
      Final Board: 8 5 J A 8
      Hero mucked 8 8 and won $0.45 ($0.22 net)
      MP1 showed A Q and lost (-$0.23 net)

      Thanks,
      Jimmy
  • 10 replies
    • kristmaas
      kristmaas
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2009 Posts: 1
      first of all... you checked 88 on the BB? A serious blunder imho
    • Lazza61
      Lazza61
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 23.03.2011 Posts: 9,223
      Agree with @kristmaas.

      Raise preflop
      Bet 70% pot post flop
      Bet 70% pot after turn
      Check river to try to induce bluff. Distinct possibility that if he stays in, with third spade and second 8 appearing, I think he would probably bluff at the scare card and then you can raise for value.
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      looks like a station. we most probably won't be able to get him to bluff :f_confused:

      being a freeplay i just pot/pot/twothirds and hope he has something.
      as played i just shove river :f_eek: it almost never works but when it does you get a entire stack :f_biggrin:
      he calls FH and maybe even flush. don't underestimate their ability to call :f_biggrin:
    • mrbeer9999
      mrbeer9999
      Basic
      Joined: 11.12.2010 Posts: 182
      40/20 may be reasonably aggressive post flop as opposed to really station-y. but we don't know because OP didn't say. He probably still calls too much though.

      OP, this hand is butchered. You generally cannot get paid with your monsters unless you bet, yes you don't want to scare them away with crazy shoves but if you don't bet you don't build a pot, if you don't build a pot you don't get paid.

      Pre: Bet here. Calling is bad, you are way ahead of his range. Even if you just take down his 1bb, that's a result from the blinds.

      Flop: You can either take a bet-bet-bet line or check-raise. Check calling is fail IMO because you don't build a pot. If you call here intending to check again you MUST raise the turn to extract value.

      Turn: More missed value. Bet or check-raise. Letting him off with a small bet here is doubly bad because if he's drawing to a flush you are allowing him to set the price.

      River: This totally serves you right. His weak bets indicate he is not super happy with his hand, yes that means he may fold to a raise but also means he's likely to check behind. You can't afford to allow him to do this. Also, the flush is on the board. The only way you are going to get paid here is if he made a flush, so just make a decent sized bet and hope he raises you holding K9s or something.
    • mrbeer9999
      mrbeer9999
      Basic
      Joined: 11.12.2010 Posts: 182
      Originally posted by Tomalocas played i just shove river :f_eek: it almost never works but when it does you get a entire stack :f_biggrin:
      he calls FH and maybe even flush. don't underestimate their ability to call :f_biggrin:
      I agree that given the way OP played the hand, shoving over river may be worth trying because he will likely call with any flush. His range is probably pretty inelastic in that he'll call a shove nearly as often as he'll call say 35c.
    • FlashDavin
      FlashDavin
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2011 Posts: 421
      Pre- Raise it up to 20 cents. You're way ahead of his range.

      Flop- I like to bet around 2/3 to 3/4 in a raised pot and pot size when a freeplay.

      Turn- Continue with 2/3 to 3/4

      River- When this hits, it's not bad to shove as he can have a full house or even flush here and will never call with anything worse (usually) but with call a shove with either.

      Betting half pot on the river to get an Ax hand to call us is ok as well. Might also induce a reraise bluff (not likely though against this type of player).
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello JimmyChooEsq,

      Preflop: Could easily even raise for value here. :)

      As played
      Flop: I'd just Bet myself or either Check/Raise it. Don't really see any reason why you should be Check/Calling and giving away free cards and not even building up the pot.

      As played
      Turn: Check/Raise is a must if you played this way!

      As played
      River: Eh? What's the purpose of the min-bet? We can't be even sure if he is capable of bluffing and most likely wont in freerplay pot nor we can't be sure if he raises for value Ax hands. Therefore just Check/Raise here if you even picked such a line.

      Best Regards.
    • esuohdla
      esuohdla
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.05.2011 Posts: 411
      I actually dont mind check/calling against a super aggressive player who will bet 3 streets with TP, you can basically c/c for his stack. But a player like that isnt generally limping in anyway so i bet/bet/bet. Could check/raise aswell but you could miss value doing that.
    • JimmyChooEsq
      JimmyChooEsq
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.04.2011 Posts: 63
      Lots of good advice, folks. Mostly along the line of "don't do what you did". :f_cry:

      Thanks.
    • Krisstef
      Krisstef
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.10.2011 Posts: 23
      Hi,

      I agree with the others 88 check on the big blind is not a strong play.
      On the lower limits check/call check/call check/raise or donk is pretty bad unless you are playing against a REAL MANIAC who literally never checks back.
      I think the reason most people/strategy websites recommend playing a TAG style is so that you can win some pots with fold equity and get paid off when you have the good hands. If you play aggressive although slowplay your monsters every time you will not just be very very readable, you will probably miss out on a lot of value. Like Mike Caro said " Aggression is rarely wrong in poker and when it is its not wrong by much." I think thats quite true.
      Bet for value is my advice to you.

      Regards,

      Chris