Transitioning from Zoom back to regular tables.

    • ilovemagic
      ilovemagic
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2011 Posts: 1,019
      Hi everyone! Today I wanted to talk a little about the subject of transitioning back to regular tables after experiencing -EV at the zoom tables. I find the game more satisfying and even more enjoyable. I am not sure what the best strategy for zoom was, but there are a great many articles for BSS which seem to work for the regular tables. I think zoom has its benefits, but are outweighed by w&the benefits of just sitting at a table and reading your opponents evry move. The metagaming decisions and table dynamics are easier to exploit this way as well. I played ~100k hands at nl5 zoom and about 25k on nl2 zoom. But i found myself getting careless and slacking on the notetaking/labeling of opponents because of the quick nature of zoom. If i could do it agan i would suggest more notes and less tables. Its almost easier to play regular tables in long run because you get more info on your opponents. I find there are a lot of fish and more people willing to gamble on reg tables. Overall i say most of the fish haven't left the reg. Tables yet. I will just stay there unless the zoom games become less nitty where a set of 9's might actually not just break even.


      Some of you might say:
      Well ur just a bad player
      You got really bad luck
      You were on tilt a lot
      Zoom is better

      I just challenge you today to ask yourself this, "is my winrate really better on zoom?" "Am I just using zoom because I don't want to sit there and wait for new hands to start"

      Im not saying don't try zoom. I had a blast at times. I just thinkk it better r to play the game you're suited for. For me its a slower game where i can label my opponents and make correct notes on them and play accordingly.

      What i learned from zoom is handreading skills. I play nl2 now, and have already enough exp. To lay down the odd KK preflop. This could be a result of playing so many times against AA and how they play AA very straightforward at times.

      All in all it doesnt matter where yu play, its just about making the best decisions and improving our game, rather than resting on our laurels and expecting too much.

      Just a little article. Comments always appreciatd. I did this from my android. Please forgive gramatical errs.

      Magic
  • 12 replies
    • conquistadorrr
      conquistadorrr
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.10.2010 Posts: 71
      I came back to regular tables and quickly regained what I lost playing zoom. I love the fast paced action, but my biggest problem is - I don't know who's who. When you play regular tables, you can give someone the benefit of the doubt and lay down the hand if you don't have enough information. But pretty soon you'll get a hold on who's playing tight, who's aggressive and so. In Zoom... I'd go broke 100 times over before I figured that out. It's just way too difficult for me, it requires much more skill than I have and the discipline of meticulous note taking... which for me takes the fun part out of the game.

      And I want it to be fun. :)

      So no Zoom for me... ok, maybe just sometimes! :)
    • ilovemagic
      ilovemagic
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2011 Posts: 1,019
      well thats the thing...to correctly notetake on zoom tables you would have to watch to the end of every hand. Notetake accordingly, and thats just not what i want to do..i want a continuous session where i play and notetake at the same time without losing value on all of my other hands/decisions i have to make.
    • Aerox232
      Aerox232
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.04.2011 Posts: 422
      I played 100 k in zoom, and yesterday tried regular tables, 4 tables, and playing somthing lika 30 VPIP in 6-max, well i`m think zoom made me in to action junkie. :f_cool:
    • ilovemagic
      ilovemagic
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2011 Posts: 1,019
      I think 30 vpip is way too much at these limits. there is just so much value in the top 10% of hands like AA KK QQ JJ TT AK that you just dont need to be risking turning those break even hands like J9s into losing hands if you play them wrong or get unlucky. Just let them go and wait for the profitable ones. plus, you get less action having so much vpip, that your monsters wont get paid as often as youd like, rather, have like 16-21 vpip and see your profit margins soar and your confidence too, plus you get more credit when you have nothing, and at times, get less credit when you're holding a monster, which is what we like. I'm finding that notetaking and labeling coupled with the HUD is pretty hard to beat when piloted by a decent poker player. +EV for my poker career definately.

      magic
    • Aerox232
      Aerox232
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.04.2011 Posts: 422
      Originally posted by ilovemagic
      I think 30 vpip is way too much at these limits. there is just so much value in the top 10% of hands like AA KK QQ JJ TT AK that you just dont need to be risking turning those break even hands like J9s into losing hands if you play them wrong or get unlucky. Just let them go and wait for the profitable ones. plus, you get less action having so much vpip, that your monsters wont get paid as often as youd like, rather, have like 16-21 vpip and see your profit margins soar and your confidence too, plus you get more credit when you have nothing, and at times, get less credit when you're holding a monster, which is what we like. I'm finding that notetaking and labeling coupled with the HUD is pretty hard to beat when piloted by a decent poker player. +EV for my poker career definately.

      magic
      my regular VPIP is somthing about 18-20,
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Originally posted by ilovemagic
      well thats the thing...to correctly notetake on zoom tables you would have to watch to the end of every hand. Notetake accordingly, and thats just not what i want to do..i want a continuous session where i play and notetake at the same time without losing value on all of my other hands/decisions i have to make.
      You have to watch the end of every hand to take a note in regular game as well afaik. And anyway i always found that taking notes while playing just take's aways your focus and always prefered to mark the hands i want to make a note about and make notes after the session in HEM.

      Originally posted by ilovemagic
      I will just stay there unless the zoom games become less nitty where a set of 9's might actually not just break even.


      Some of you might say:
      Well ur just a bad player
      You got really bad luck
      You were on tilt a lot
      Zoom is better

      I just challenge you today to ask yourself this, "is my winrate really better on zoom?" "Am I just using zoom because I don't want to sit there and wait for new hands to start"
      I don't see why everyone complains about nittines of the games. You just have to make some adaptions and fold you set of 9's since they pretty much tell you what they have when they raise you. I'd much rather play against someone who c/r the flop <5% and always has it and turns his hand face up then agasint some one with 15% ballanced C/r range. And the same goes preflop. Just don't get it in with KK and whine about how unlucky you got when you see AA for the 10th time in a row since there are so many spot where they pretty much always have it.

      I don't see why anyone would say that, you can play w/e you want for what ever reason you want.

      My winrate can be even 60-65% lower for the same hourly since im getting in twice as many hands. Also the main advantage of zoom is when you have less then 1h or w/e and nothing to do its really easy to fire up a bunch of zoom tables and just grind for 30mins and close your session when it takes almost 30 mins to get 9 standard tables going depending on where you play and how much your table selecting.
    • crazy808z
      crazy808z
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.06.2009 Posts: 6
      im playing 21/18 over 40k hands at 6max and its very profitable. I find that u can exploit the regs so much there laughable and will be at the same limit for a long time experiment with lines against them as there the only people who will think about ur range as appose to fishes. Fishes isolate them when ever u get a chance and you will show an immediate profit + chuck up a fold to 3bet% on your hud and regs are just a joke
    • ilovemagic
      ilovemagic
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2011 Posts: 1,019
      Well we seem to have a few people who like zoom. If that's your thing so-be-it. I guess i'm just oldschool. The regular tables seem too fishy to not play, and i don't find myself guessing as much when makingg a decision. Good luck with the zoom though guys. :)

      Magic
    • chrispokergod
      chrispokergod
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.12.2011 Posts: 33
      How do you mark hands so you can view them later in HEM2?
    • ilovemagic
      ilovemagic
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2011 Posts: 1,019
      Not sure bout hm2, but on pt3 you can mark the hands in the hud option pop up right at the table while u play. But not on zoom..another reason i dont like zoom. They should have that fixed soon tho.
    • fielden1982
      fielden1982
      Basic
      Joined: 23.07.2010 Posts: 7
      I've recently been profiting a lot from Zoom since its started really but I have got defined tactics which win me large pots occassionally and grow my balance gradually and fairly constantly. I think it is pretty straightforward the tactics needed to profit on zoom, it does seem quite fishy but I usually never reraise against an EP/MP player who raises without QQ/KK/AA/AK. All other pairs I will set mine and AQ i would flat. There is great value in hitting sets versus overpairs as a lot of the time you will get paid off. From any position (if I am opening) I will ALWAYS raise 3x AJ+ and any pair, a lot of the time suited connectors as well for implied odds. If anyone open raises from the cutoff/button or SB when I am BB, I will always three-bet 3x on top to define their hand. 85%+ of the time they will fold to the three-bet. If anyone opens the raising (from EP/MP) and I have a small pair I will almost always flat to try and setmine the flop.
    • ilovemagic
      ilovemagic
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2011 Posts: 1,019
      How have you found 22-55? Seems like i run into set over set too much