[NL20-NL50] [SH] NL 50 QQ IP 4bet pot

    • DeMarcohsp
      DeMarcohsp
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,975
      Poker Stars $50.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players -
      UTG: $66.18 - VPIP: 23, PFR: 15, 3B: 0, AF: 1.0, Hands: 39
      CO: $38.60 - VPIP: 55, PFR: 28, 3B: 0, AF: 1.3, Hands: 29
      Hero (BTN): $50.00 -
      SB: $51.34 - VPIP: 21, PFR: 17, 3B: 10, AF: 4, Hands: 70
      BB: $70.33 - VPIP: 38, PFR: 24, 3B: 4, AF: 7.0, Hands: 29

      Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BTN with Q :spade: Q :heart:
      2 folds, Hero raises to $1.25, SB raises to $4.50, 1 fold, Hero raises to $9.75, SB calls $5.25

      Flop: ($20.00) T :heart: A :diamond: 8 :club: (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero checks

      Turn: ($20.00) 4 :heart: (2 players)
      SB bets $13.00, Hero folds


      How should I proceed on the flop? What range an I assess him in this spot ?

      Too small preflop?

      On the turn I did not think that he would turn his pairs into bluffs that often so I'd expect his range to have lots of Ax in it &-wise.
  • 8 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello DeMarcohsp,

      Doubt that I would be CBetting either on the flop and most likely I'd play the same way. But dependent on how I see the opponent and if I see him being aggressive I might even sometimes Call the turn. You can never be sure what kind of hands they could be turning into bluff if you had an aggressive image on the table.

      Best Regards.
    • DeMarcohsp
      DeMarcohsp
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,975
      I would usually expect a guy that decides to turn a hand into a bluff on the turn to barrel river as well? I this a good assumption? (at least I know it is usually wrong to donk bluff turn w/o river barrel as well).


      If this is true I still prefer folding, or call both?
    • CallumN
      CallumN
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2012 Posts: 1,141
      If i check back flop then I am calling down.

      He has very few combos of Ax as he gets in AK pre and AQ we have blockers too.

      For the same reasons I bet flop. As well as the fact when we check back we look like we have a hand similar to ours.

      We would bet flop with bluffs and Ax so when we check back what do you think it looks like? A hand that is not a bluff but can not beat Ax
    • DeMarcohsp
      DeMarcohsp
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,975
      Do you think it is good to continue aggression in this spot with air? I usually put my opponent on a strong-nuttish range when he calls 4bet OOP so I'm inclined to just give up my crap.

      Reasons for continuing aggression with air? I mean do we have enough FE?
    • CallumN
      CallumN
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2012 Posts: 1,141
      What range do you think he flats a 4bet with. Consider our sizing when you answer this btw.

      How do you think he perceives our 4bet and what range do you think he thinks our 4bet consists of.

      Once you answer these questions we can start developing a plan for continuing in this hand
    • DeMarcohsp
      DeMarcohsp
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,975
      Ok, what kind of sizing would be ok in this scenario? ~ 11?

      I think villain is expecting my range to be polarized as a default and if he thinks that I bluff a high percent of the time he can prolly call a wide range of broadway hands OOP that heavily dominate my range of K4s and J4s + also all the monster hands as he prolly does not have any reason to 5bet them ( he does not know if I stack light with 77 or not/A5s). BTW he can shove his weakish hands (Ax) if he thinks I am folding a great amount of the time, right ?

      This is how I understand it theory-wise. Nl 50 players are also putting in practice?
    • CallumN
      CallumN
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2012 Posts: 1,141
      I think your sizing is fine IP.

      I think your thought process is good in the respect that you are actually considering what he perceives your range to consist of.

      My 2c is that his range for flatting a 4bet is QJ-KQ and maybe AQ 80% of the time. 10% of the time its some suited junk and 10% of the time its JJ-AA

      Overall i think he just shows up with a tonne of broad way combos that he 3bet for value and then decides cause your 4bet is small that instead of folding/jamming hes gonna call and try and flop a pair.

      As a result, when we consider how his range is weighted towards broadways and very few Ax hands. I dont find a fold button if we check back flop. My default would be to cbet flop and expect to get to showdown/get folds quite often.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by DeMarcohsp
      I would usually expect a guy that decides to turn a hand into a bluff on the turn to barrel river as well? I this a good assumption? (at least I know it is usually wrong to donk bluff turn w/o river barrel as well).


      If this is true I still prefer folding, or call both?
      Not really, I would also sometimes even Check behind here as well AK/AQ or whatsoever type of hands. Cause I am never getting value from worse and rather Check for bluff-induce -> which in those spots in 4bets pots I would assume they are not really spewing away the money while they could also understand that we have a lot of Ax combos in your Check behind range here.

      If you would yourself the villain, would you really turn your JJ/missed hands into bluff and Bet turn & river just cause opponent Checked such a flop where he most likely would assume never get value from those PPs?