Fixed limit HU learning path?

  • 33 replies
    • RasTweet
      RasTweet
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.12.2009 Posts: 4,553
      Hey Kruger!

      Just moved your thread to the fixed limit forums.

      Good luck playing fixed limit + HU!

      RasTweet
    • kruger32
      kruger32
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      Joined: 14.05.2011 Posts: 242
      Originally posted by RasTweet
      Hey Kruger!

      Just moved your thread to the fixed limit forums.

      Good luck playing fixed limit + HU!

      RasTweet
      Oh! Okay!
      Thanks!
    • kruger32
      kruger32
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      Joined: 14.05.2011 Posts: 242
      OMG please answer!
    • gadget51
      gadget51
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      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      Hey Kruger32,

      Very sorry about the delay in answering, I'll see if I can find somebody. I know very little about this game unfortunately.

      Regards,

      Mal.
    • datsmahname
      datsmahname
      Global
      Joined: 23.11.2009 Posts: 1,366
      Hey Kruger, much of the FLHU content on the site is found at higher status levels. Byron Jacobs, the gold FL coach occasionally hosts HU sessions for his live coaching as well.

      However, If you're interested in FLHU (and who wouldn't be) one way to gain some experience is by playing HU SNGs. The rake you pay compared to the hands dealt is low so you could start learning there. The non-turbo variant usually lasts 30-45 minutes and you can play 100-150 hands (or there about).

      edit: I'm not a HU pro. Transitioning from FR to 6-max and getting comfortable with short handed games will certainly help.
    • kruger32
      kruger32
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      Joined: 14.05.2011 Posts: 242
      Hey guys thanks!
      OMG please answer!
      That was kinda a joke, hope you guys don't mind.

      However, If you're interested in FLHU (and who wouldn't be) one way to gain some experience is by playing HU SNGs.
      I don't get the "and who wouldn't be" part. Do you mean that there is little interest for FLHU? You seem to be right. So little traffic on ipoker for FLHU and no books and stuff as well.

      Apart from playing, and the higher level materials are there any specific books or such?
    • taavi1337
      taavi1337
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      Joined: 29.05.2009 Posts: 2,920
      The main issue at lower stakes FL HU is the rake, which is really high, about 5BB+/100 at smaller sites. You can start playing a bit tougher opponents at 3/6, but even there the rake is still around 3BB/100.

      So you have to bumhunt only, and even then you have to know quite well what you're doing to win something. I wouldn't recommend playing HU lower than 2/4 unless you're against a huge fish.

      That's why you can get a bit more experience by playing HU SNGs, as the rake is lower in these making it more profitable at micros/small stakes.

      You can also practice HU by tablestarting in 6max or FR - this is a great way to do it, as you also learn 3handed and 4handed game this way, which is very profitable and educative. By tablestarting you usually only play a couple of hands HU (depending on the site traffic), so you don't pay that much rake.

      Sorry about the delay in answering, I saw the thread a while ago but didn't consider myself to be "a FL HU Pro" so I let it be. There aren't that many FL HU pros in English community as far as I know. Yoghi, Dawnfall26, tomzyb, and some other guys but most of them play 6max as well not only HU I think.

      edit:

      About the materials - I don't know a good book for FL HU beginners, but there are lots of very good videos on this topic at DC
    • datsmahname
      datsmahname
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      Joined: 23.11.2009 Posts: 1,366
      Originally posted by kruger32
      Hey guys thanks!
      OMG please answer!
      That was kinda a joke, hope you guys don't mind.
      :) np, the only way I get answers fast enough is if I'm asking google.
      I don't get the "and who wouldn't be" part.
      I'm biased, but I think FLHE heads up is one of the most interesting variants. Players always have very wide hand ranges and their tendencies disperse widely as well. A bluff line against one player can be a value line against another and the difference between the two player types doesn't even need to be all that drastic.

      It is hard to find books on this topic and the reason might be that LHE has not been as popular as other variants. There are lots of books on Limit Holdem though. "Winning in tough holdem games" likely talks about HU strat a bit, but its definitely focused on short handed so you can try that. Also, if you focus really hard on the concepts in 6-max and FR you should be able to transfer these ideas into HU play. You could also learn some from HU no-limit books, and I would guess preflop open raising ranges are very similar.

      Taavi makes some good points. Most of the HU hands I play are when table starting, and creating games is a great way to find recreational players. Tight guys don't want to join a short handed game that much.
    • datsmahname
      datsmahname
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      Joined: 23.11.2009 Posts: 1,366
      If 2+2 comes back online soon I'll try to find a Milestone post by Bellatrix. She made an intro thread on FLHU that covers basic adjustments.
    • gadget51
      gadget51
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      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      Thanks you for your help guys. :)

      Regards all,

      Mal.
    • datsmahname
      datsmahname
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      Joined: 23.11.2009 Posts: 1,366
      i can haz cookie?
    • kruger32
      kruger32
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      Joined: 14.05.2011 Posts: 242
      OK guys, thank you very much.

      I started playing over a year ago, but quickly got bored playing FR games.
      Then I started NLHU and really loved it. (I play SNGs only by the way.)
      After playing NLHU for some time I was wonderning what FLHU would be like to play. I got more interested in it after learning about Polaris and the Man vs Machine.

      Also, I was hoping that the edge would be greater in FLHU game (because of the bet sizing) for better players. Sometimes NLHU ends in a coinflip and a donk steals all your money. That happens less in FLHU right?

      Anyway think I'll give it a shot. The fact that it is less popular makes it more exciting!
      TY guys!
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
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      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Originally posted by kruger32
      Sometimes NLHU ends in a coinflip and a donk steals all your money. That happens less in FLHU right?
      In FLHU donks steal you money with 15% Eq one BB at a click... at least in NLHU they use a badly swung broad sword rather than a badly swung electric bread knife...
    • redskwerl
      redskwerl
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      Joined: 03.03.2008 Posts: 3,802
      +1 to hu sngs on lower limits bc of the high rake.

      there aren't any books on the subject, i suggest you simply start playing the lowest hu sngs available and analyze the hands afterwards.
      if you have some experience with NL HU then it will certainly be easier to transition to FL HU. it's a very different game though, it usually takes a while for NL players to adapt to the super loose ranges.

      good luck
    • kruger32
      kruger32
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      Joined: 14.05.2011 Posts: 242
      @taavi1337: I didn't see your post earlier. Thanks for you advice. Yeah I heard the rake kills even in FR games. Even discounting rakes, Micro Stakes HU cash-games have lots of hit-and-run players making it frustrating.

      @Waiboy: I don't get it! Hopefully I'll get it soon!

      Thanks everybody!

      Good books for FL please (not HU only)?

      Currently reading: Ed Miller's "Hand Reading" , Owen Gaine's : "Hole Card Confessions"
      Looking to improve my hand reading skills.
      Want to read the opponents like crazy.

      Want to be a HU specialist... Any kind of suggestion is welcome.

      And please answer my question:
      Does a better player have greater edge in FLHU than in NLHU?
    • datsmahname
      datsmahname
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      Joined: 23.11.2009 Posts: 1,366
      "Does a better player have a greater edge in FLHU than in NLHU?"

      I don't think so. The reason I think this way is because the size of the mistakes a player can make in fixed limit are relatively small.

      In the short run i suspect a better player can win more in NLHU. The reason for this caveat is that I suspect correcting mistakes is easier when the cost of making them is blatant (you lose your stack). Sure, luck is still a factor but thats no less true in FL.

      However, in FL mistakes are not punished as heavily. For this reason I think players can continue making mistakes and possibly never learn.
    • kruger32
      kruger32
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      Joined: 14.05.2011 Posts: 242
      OK!
      Thanks dude!
    • redskwerl
      redskwerl
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      Joined: 03.03.2008 Posts: 3,802
      Originally posted by kruger32
      Does a better player have greater edge in FLHU than in NLHU?
      if you mean in terms of BB/100, definitely not.

      for example, i'm primarily a FL player and my FL HU winrate is less than my NL HU winrate. and in NL HU half the time i have no idea what i'm doing. okay obv in NL i play relatively lower stakes.. but not that much lower.

      i believe it is still worthwhile to learn FL HU. mainly because FL in general is a way more interesting game. what could be more fun than raising A hi on the river for value? ;)
      also bc it is a 'simpler' game in a theoretical sense, it's easier to analyze your own game and correct mistakes, allowing you to improve pretty steadily.
    • datsmahname
      datsmahname
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      Joined: 23.11.2009 Posts: 1,366
      glad to see some FLHU grinders here. redskwerl, I bet i could learn a lot from you too.
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