[NL20-NL50] NL25SH KK standard(?)

    • awishformore
      awishformore
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2007 Posts: 922
      PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      UTG: $14.31
      MP: $25.00
      CO: $39.52 (VPP 28 / PFR 23 / WTS 25 / F3B 17)
      BTN: $13.47
      SB: $32.09
      Hero (BB): $37.32

      SB posts SB $0.10, Hero posts BB $0.25

      Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has K:diamond: K:spade:

      fold, fold, CO raises to $0.60, fold, fold, Hero raises to $2.10, CO calls $1.50

      Flop: ($4.30, 2 players) 3:heart: Q:heart: 6:spade:
      Hero bets $2.87, CO calls $2.87

      Turn: ($10.04, 2 players) 5:spade:
      Hero bets $5.87


      And one more time the same question: what if he shoves here? I'm starting to think a lot about these spots with good hands pre-flop, but oop on the flop. They seem to get me into a lot of trouble.
  • 5 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello awishformore,

      Being so deep here we have to plan to Bet/Fold cause he was still able to Call preflop for set mining correctly. To avoid that you could also raise it bigger 4x at least.

      Best Regards.
    • CallumN
      CallumN
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2012 Posts: 1,141
      I agree with veriz, I would be 3betting bigger pre.

      I would also bet bigger on the turn, closer to $7-8 as I doubt he folds Qx or fd's to any sizing.

      If he over bet shoved here I would break my mouse snap calling, I find their range is weighted heavily towards hearts/spades when they overbet jam.

      I think most players raise flop with 33/66 anyway so even if I faced a raise on the turn I would stick it in, He has 6 value combos and 9 at a push plus maybe 2 combos of 56s. There are a tonne of flush draws + spazz cause we are deep to justify sticking it in imo.
    • awishformore
      awishformore
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2007 Posts: 922
      I agree that I would feel more comfortable playing this sort of hand if I 3bet bigger oop.

      However, I'm wondering how that affects my 3betting strategy in general; I don't want to start using an imbalanced 3betting approach against opponents who look like TAGs. I also want to 3bet a lot from the blinds against at least BU, but preferably also CO.

      Would you just flat-out recommend to have an imbalanced 3betting size?

      Also about snapping the turn, I really don't think they would ever jam something worse on this limit. How familiar are you with NL25SH on stars? If you tell me you talk from experience, I will try to explore these spots a bit more, but it seems that the tendencies are very passive in these pots and big aggression seems to always be really strong.
    • CallumN
      CallumN
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2012 Posts: 1,141
      You are right, I can not talk from experience of stars, but I can say that i have played at least 5 million hands ranging from nl20-nl1k on Ipoker/Microgaming. I would definitely say that a majority of the time I have faced a turn shove here it has been a draw more often then it is a hand that beats KK.

      In regards to 3bet sizing, we are not advising to 3bet bigger because we have a big hand, but because we are oop and are deep. If it was 100bb's then I would say your sizing is fine.

      However when this deep we should 3bet bigger with 100% of our range. This is because we expect to get peeled more so can expect to earn a extra few bb's from the weak hands he calls pre with.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Would you just flat-out recommend to have an imbalanced 3betting size?

      That's not only with strong hands but also I would do that with any of my 3betting range just for the reason not to let him call loose. Especially when you are OOP.