AA vs KK

    • brogac
      brogac
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.01.2012 Posts: 9
      Hello,

      I played on table 0,02/0,04€ 9max table, 9 players

      I'm on the button with my stack: app. 6€ KK
      My opponent UTG limps in (0,04€) with AA; stack: 4€ vpip/pfr: 14/4

      other players fold and I raise to 0.20€
      sb and bb fold, UTG reraises to 0.96€
      i go all in and lost app. 100bb

      Now I wonder how many big blinds is worth to go all in with KK?

      ty
  • 8 replies
    • fielden1982
      fielden1982
      Basic
      Joined: 23.07.2010 Posts: 7
      I find whenever UTG limps and tries to trap in this manner and they reraise you back, then most of the time it is actually AA whilst KK is very hard to fold especially at these low levels, the only hand that makes sense is AA to me. QQ and AK is a possibility, but very much less likely. Your choice is obviously reraise/shove and pray not for AA, flat and setmine if you put him on AA with this trap, but after his raise you are not deep enough to setmine so IMO you could actually fold and get away very cheaply. By limp, three betting his hand is pretty much face-up. We all need these hands and experiences to help us grow as players though.
    • gxtwo
      gxtwo
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.12.2010 Posts: 1,268
      Originally posted by fielden1982
      I find whenever UTG limps and tries to trap in this manner and they reraise you back, then most of the time it is actually AA whilst KK is very hard to fold especially at these low levels, the only hand that makes sense is AA to me. QQ and AK is a possibility, but very much less likely. Your choice is obviously reraise/shove and pray not for AA, flat and setmine if you put him on AA with this trap, but after his raise you are not deep enough to setmine so IMO you could actually fold and get away very cheaply. By limp, three betting his hand is pretty much face-up. We all need these hands and experiences to help us grow as players though.
      We are never getting the right odds here vs such a raise.

      If we use Call20 rule both hero and villain would need at least €15.20 behind.

      Also, personally, I am never folding kings pre. I would need a large sample of hands on a player and solid stats to convince me to fold :D

      How many big blinds is it worth? Again it depends on the player and what kind of reads/ stats i have on them. against a reg, for ~150bb I'm no thinking twice about shipping kings pre. 200+ I would be in the tank
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,909
      Hello brogac,

      The limp/raise will usually be a strong hand but unless you have a good read it's only AA and not AK, QQ+ or some other crap like AJ, A6s I wouldn't fold KK for 100bb.

      Think of it another way as well: If he raises, you 3bet and you eventually get it in, you have no doubts about your play, right? If the hands were reversed, you get it in again, right? This means that your play vs him doesn't give him an advantage because whatever you do you get it in. The only thing you can do is NOT get it in if you have a very good read. KK vs AA is not going to be where your profit comes in poker since people rarely misplay this matchup. :)

      How deep you have to be to not stack off KK pre? It depends! It simply depends on how your opponent adjusts when deep. If he doesn't adjust and thinks JJ is the nuts 500bb deep you shouldn't fold KK and you should always raise it for value.

      Regards,
      Manu.
    • brogac
      brogac
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.01.2012 Posts: 9
      Thank you very much for all replies. Helps a lot :)
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      Hi brogac,

      To be truthful I'm not folding QQ in that spot and KK is an insta-push for me, for the reasons given more expertly above.

      I personally don't fold QQ because it is not always AA or KK or AK, I think this is a misconception but haven't the data to bnack it up so it's just a theory.

      I have seen limp/rerasie all ins with all sorts of crap from any two suited upwards, especially if the villain has just sat in and posted, it happens a fair bit at least.

      To fold QQ I need to know the villain better and yes on occasion I do run into KK, AA, but not as often as it appears. We are conditined to remember the bad ones!


      Best regards,

      MAl.
    • Castle93
      Castle93
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2011 Posts: 1,458
      I have never folded KK vs. one opponent for 100BB as ive never find a time ive had a solid enough read that he could have AA, yeahhh if 2 or 3 people went all in in front of me, i would fold but in your spot, i wouldnt be folding with less than 200BB, but i might flat his raise deep enough and go from there
    • conquistadorrr
      conquistadorrr
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.10.2010 Posts: 71
      Yesterday, I saw a guy limp/reraise with A5o. Too bad he lost all of his stack before I could get a chance to play against him. :)

      I don't fold KK PF on microstakes. If I think he hit the A on the flop, then I fold, but when I get KK I am happy to go all in PF. :)
    • Krisstef
      Krisstef
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.10.2011 Posts: 23
      Hi,

      I agree with the others.

      Limp/re-raise is quite fishy especially if the player is 100+bb deep. I've seen many people limp/shove but mostly shortstacks as they can hardly play post flop, not really much sense in callling raises when you got like less than 20bb, although I've seen Helmuth call the big blind HU vs Johny Chann with 3big blinds left :D .

      I would never really fold KK in that spot i think its still a profitable play to shove all in, since you would more often run into QQ, AK would be more.
      I would probably hesitate shoving KK all in PF with more than 250-300BB, I'd probably flat and see how the hand goes, probably play some pot control.
      Less than 200BB its pretty much a standart push imo.

      Regards,

      Chris