[NL20-NL50] medium pocket pairs that become middle pair on flop

    • megaB
      megaB
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.02.2008 Posts: 478
      so here are a few hands, in a spot I am generally not that comfortable to be in when I have absolutely no reads

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      HAND #1
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      Full Tilt Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
      LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

      MP: $142.45
      CO: $50
      BTN: $50
      SB: $68.20
      Hero (BB): $80.15
      UTG: $46.60

      Pre-Flop: 7:spade: 7:diamond: dealt to Hero (BB)
      UTG calls $0.50, MP raises to $2.25, 3 folds, Hero calls $1.75, UTG calls $1.75

      Flop: ($7) 3:club: 5:heart: 9:spade: (3 Players)
      Hero checks, UTG checks, MP bets $4, Hero raises to $19

      is that raise any good ?



      ------------------
      HAND #2
      ------------------

      Full Tilt Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
      LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

      BTN: $92.95
      SB: $39.40
      BB: $46.85
      UTG: $54.90
      Hero (CO): $52.50

      Pre-Flop: 8:heart: 8:diamond: dealt to Hero (CO)
      BB folds, UTG raises to $1.75, Hero calls $1.75, 2 folds

      Flop: ($4.25) T:club: 4:club: 5:heart: (2 Players)
      UTG bets $4.25, Hero ???

      no clue what i should do here, villain is aggrofish and usually psb w/ tp
  • 9 replies
    • Chiller3k
      Chiller3k
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2007 Posts: 4,326
      #1:
      I think it's possible to raise ehre. The board looks very dry and he has to fold ost of the times.
      19$ seems too much for me. You are investing nearly half of your stack with a marginal hand here. I would only make it somethink like 13$.
      And I think your fold equity is nearly the same.

      #2:
      fold imo.
      When he's really that aggressive calling is ugly, because he will most likely bet the turn again. And I don't like to reraise fishes with marginal hands.
      Just wait for a better spot and stack him ;)
    • nttflox
      nttflox
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2007 Posts: 673
      #1 I for one don't like your raise. Would you play a set the same way on that flop? I doubt it.

      #2 I would fold and wait for a better spot.
    • TribunCaesar
      TribunCaesar
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.04.2007 Posts: 13,264
      Originally posted by Chiller3k
      #1:
      I think it's possible to raise ehre. The board looks very dry and he has to fold ost of the times.
      19$ seems too much for me. You are investing nearly half of your stack with a marginal hand here. I would only make it somethink like 13$.
      And I think your fold equity is nearly the same.

      #2:
      fold imo.
      When he's really that aggressive calling is ugly, because he will most likely bet the turn again. And I don't like to reraise fishes with marginal hands.
      Just wait for a better spot and stack him ;)
      #2

      Hand2: If he is not the type of fish that always barrels the turn i would call the flop and reevaluate the turn, othwerwise fold.

      Best regards,
      TribunCaesar
    • sw0ldo
      sw0ldo
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.07.2007 Posts: 397
      I don't get why you would want to raise on either hand? You are not raising for value as you realy aren't sure if you have the best hand. Generally you are going to fold out all the hands you beat and all the hands which have you beat are going to call. All you are basically doing is raising for information, which is generally bad.

      Call in both spots and re-evaluate on the turn.
    • Chiller3k
      Chiller3k
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2007 Posts: 4,326
      I'm not quiet sure who you are referring to but I think it's a discussion and it's good to talk about hands.

      #1
      sorry but I don't understand why you would call with 77.
      You are playing OOP. I think nearly every turn card is ugly and makes the hand even more hard to play. I am not raising for value here. I want him to fold.

      #2
      You are playing against a agressiv fish. I think he'll most likely bet the turn again. Of course calling is an option here but to be honest I don't like it. I ahte to play "big" pots against fishes with marginal hands.

      that's my opinion =)
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      1) If you re.raise you`re saying to the other player that you have set.
      If other player holds overpair he might fold, but mostly he thinks that you´re bluffing and shove, so you don´t accomplish anything, than make overcards fold, which you´re ahead anyway.
      I would just call and wait what he does on the turn. If he has overcards you might get for free showdown, if he has overpair, he would probably bet again.
      2) This is fold.
      No reason to believe that you´re ahead against UTG opening range.
      And since he bet pot he would bet pot again on the turn and you have to fold then.
    • megaB
      megaB
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.02.2008 Posts: 478
      Originally posted by Chiller3k

      #1
      sorry but I don't understand why you would call with 77.
      You are playing OOP. I think nearly every turn card is ugly and makes the hand even more hard to play. I am not raising for value here. I want him to fold.



      that's my opinion =)
      this is exactly what I am thinking. i am raising to get a fold and to protect my hand which might be the best hand on the flop but can so easily get worse after turn and river. i don't get it why you would just want to call if he has overcards he has to pay for the draw to his 6outs.
      there are so many card i don't wanna see and he can bluff easily on.

      plus i rep a very strong hand like 2pair or set, so i can make some top pair fold, maybe overpairs.
    • mintogo
      mintogo
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.05.2008 Posts: 256
      What does ur opponent think when you call on the flop?

      I think he's exactly gonna think you have an underpair after your call out of the big blind, you are not gonna call the flop with overcards right? And with an overpair you probably raise pre-flop and post flop.

      He might be suspicious bout slow playing a set.

      But calling the flop you still don't know anything about him, if you check on the turn he's gonna fire again if he has an overpair or when he has 2 overcards because he thinks he can get the underpair to fold.

      I think I would call if I was in position.
    • dirtyibis
      dirtyibis
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.01.2008 Posts: 51
      #1 check/call 3 way once, if it was heads up, a raise has its merits, but your raise was too large. I understand what you mean by protecting this hand but really with your small pps you should be playing fit or fold.

      #2 check/call, check/fold, leaning towards check call cos you say he's an aggressive fish and he psbs with top pair, he probably doesnt have anything on that flop, and is one of those types that bets bets bets. If he bets big on the turn he gives you no choice but to fold, if he checks, you figure to have the best hand