[NL2-NL10] 4NL AQs on BTN A88 flop

    • William340
      William340
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.02.2012 Posts: 170
      obviously, my bet worked, but I want to know if it was a good idea.
      the cutoff is a rock his CO VPIP/PFR is 3/3 over 72 hands in the Cut Off
      the SB calls open raises from the SB 18% (4 times out of 23 hands)

      $0.02/$0.04 No Limit Holdem
      Merge
      8 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      UTG Player8 ($3.19)
      UTG+1 Player9 ($5.05)
      MP1 Player1 ($7.30)
      MP2 Player2 ($3.18)
      CO Player3 ($4) - VPIP: 11, PFR: 5, 3B: 1, AF: 1.8, Hands: 601
      BTN William340 ($4.07)
      SB Player6 ($4.85) - VPIP: 17, PFR: 7, 3B: 3, AF: 1.5, Hands: 325
      BB Player7 ($4.06)

      Pre-Flop: ($0.06, 8 players) William340 is BTN A:diamond: Q:diamond:
      4 folds, Player3 raises to $0.12, William340 calls $0.12, Player6 calls $0.10, 1 fold

      Flop: 8:spade: 8:club: A:spade: ($0.40, 3 players)
      Player6 checks, Player3 checks, William340 bets $0.20, Player6 folds, Player3 folds

      Final Pot: $0.40

      William340 wins $0.78 (net +$0.46)

      Player6 collects $0.00 (net -$0.12)
      Player3 lost $0.12

      The CO's check seemed to eliminate AK, and he does not have any 8's in his raising range (except 88, and probably not even that).
      The SB could be slowplaying an 8, but w/o an 8, he can't continue.

      I was not sure if I should bet more than 1/2P as there were 2 players, but I figured if I got check-raised I was folding, so I did not want to lose any more than necessary.
  • 9 replies
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      At every dicision, I just ask myself:
      1.) Can I bet/here here for value?
      2.) Can I bluff here?


      If the answer is NO to both of the questions, don't do it. This dead money concept is still kind of hard for me to understand, that'd be the only reason to bet here.

      In this example:

      1)Can I get worse hands to call? Well, CO doesnt have any A in his range after checking the flop, so we can't get value from weaker Ax.
      I doubt, that anything weaker then top pair is going to call, so we can't.
      2.) Can we bet as a bluff?
      No stronger hands are going to fold here (78, 89, 88)

      So that would make me check. But, should I just make them throw away their equity?
    • William340
      William340
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.02.2012 Posts: 170
      Imimba1 -
      I understand what you are saying, but what I was thinking is:
      I'm pretty sure I can't call a bet here, but I can make one!
      I guess I am hoping they hate this flop and will go away.

      does this mean I turned TPGK into a bluff?

      I'm not sure. that's why I'm posting the hand.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello William340,

      VERIZ, is this way of logic wrong?

      It's always good if you ask questions, especially before making your decisions for example if you get raised. Always try to take a small break and pause it for few secs and then ask those questions whatever you think you should be asking from yourself what make profit to come for you. Maybe "what hands do I beat?" or anything else. But right now the case is different.

      The case why it's different it's cause we have a made hand, so it means we can't Check behind here while it's also drawy. They are still capable of Checking even with draws time to time and therefore I'd CB the flop get protect my hand. Although what I don't understand what's the purpose of the 1/2 pot size Bet, rather do it bigger if you trying to protect your hand. On those stakes you will so often people having even worse hands which call you anyways and no matter what kind of sizing you pick here, mine would be ~$0,30.

      Best Regards.
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      Originally posted by veriz
      The case why it's different it's cause we have a made hand, so it means we can't Check behind here while it's also drawy.
      I just think, that our hand could get more value on later streets, if we check behind. One of them could bet with middle-pair, and we would be happy with the +ev.

      If we bet on the flop, we make worse hands fold, because this flop doesn't give them too much opportunity to call imo, only flush draws.

      Is betting against flush draws +EV against checking behind, inducing bluffs/weak value bets?
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      i think most don't ever fold a pocket on this board. they often fold to second barrels though
      it'd be easier for us to get value if it was a Q instead...

      i think i just bet twice anyway to make my decision easier on the river.
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      Originally posted by veriz
      The case why it's different it's cause we have a made hand, so it means we can't Check behind here while it's also drawy.
      I just think, that our hand could get more value on later streets, if we check behind. One of them could bet with middle-pair, and we would be happy with the +ev.

      If we bet on the flop, we make worse hands fold, because this flop doesn't give them too much opportunity to call imo, only flush draws.

      Is betting against flush draws +EV against checking behind, inducing bluffs/weak value bets?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      And give them free cards for FD? Not really. :) If he has the ace/FD then he pays us, if he doesn't have a hand then he wont pay us much more either. Bet/Bet/Bet.
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      Originally posted by veriz
      If he has the ace/FD then he pays us, if he doesn't have a hand then he wont pay
      Isn't it +EV to check and to induce bluffs or weaker value bets from them later on?
      He could fold his A4s to a flop bet, but if we check behind, he'll think he is ahead with his A, and is going to put money in the pot.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Imimba1
      Originally posted by veriz
      If he has the ace/FD then he pays us, if he doesn't have a hand then he wont pay
      Isn't it +EV to check and to induce bluffs or weaker value bets from them later on?
      He could fold his A4s to a flop bet, but if we check behind, he'll think he is ahead with his A, and is going to put money in the pot.
      You wont get paid much more but meanwhile you get paid if he has a hand as draw/Ax. ;)