Post-flop questions.

    • Vip3rNZ
      Vip3rNZ
      Silver
      Joined: 11.11.2011 Posts: 340
      Ok, so i have a few questions about post-flop play.

      I'm looking for the right situations for these moves, i know they wont be very often but i'd like to try and learn when is a good spot for them.

      Raising the Pre-flop Raiser's C-Bet when I am in position as a bluff. ( E.G. i call the PFR with a small pocket pair or AJs or something and miss my set / flushdraw / top-pair )

      Check-Raising the PFR as a bluff. ( E.G. I call in the blinds with a small pocket pair and miss my set )

      Also another situation I'm kind of unsure about is this one:

      I raise preflop with AJ / AQ / AK / KQ from middle / late position ( sometimes over some limpers sometimes just an open )

      The board comes down and i have top-pair so i make a C-Bet and someone raises my C-Bet, normally in this situation i'll just fold as it feels really uncomfortable to call because i dont think i have any +EV actions after calling here?


      If someone could help me out here i'd appreciate it alot :)
  • 4 replies
    • RasTweet
      RasTweet
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.12.2009 Posts: 4,553
      Hi Vip3eNZ

      First of all I moved you thread to the no limit forum since it's rather a strategy question.

      I think (not sure) you can raise the flop as a bluff when someone has a high Cbet %. Although it might be good to let him bluff again on the turn, this way you get more money out of him since he'll fold on the flop otherwise. The downside is that you don't really know where you're at on the turn then and you're giving him a free card.

      Someone will know the correct answer though!

      RasTweet
    • jonnyjm
      jonnyjm
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.03.2008 Posts: 447
      Bluff raising flops are fine, but you need to pay attention to board texture for a few reasons such as:

      1) Will your perceived range hit many hands, thus be believable if you raise?

      2) How wet is the board? The wetter the board the less often you can expect bluff raises to work.

      You need to also look beyond the C-bet% stat and have a look at the "Fold to raise" stat for the flop etc. You will get players that cbet alot and fold often to pressure and then you get those who call raises often as well as re-raising.


      As RasTweet has mentioned, you can flat the flop and let them bluff again, but this does allow another card to peel off, but more importantly it makes your bluffs both more expensive & will significantly reduce the SPR.

      SPR is vital to be awear of when planning your action because the lower the SPR the less maneuverability you have in the hand and the more a mistake will harm your win-rate.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Hi Vip3rNZ,

      Originally posted by Vip3rNZ
      Ok, so i have a few questions about post-flop play.

      I'm looking for the right situations for these moves, i know they wont be very often but i'd like to try and learn when is a good spot for them.

      Raising the Pre-flop Raiser's C-Bet when I am in position as a bluff. ( E.G. i call the PFR with a small pocket pair or AJs or something and miss my set / flushdraw / top-pair )

      In this situation you should raise flops where your opponent has a weak range, is likely to barrel and you hand can't stand pressure. For example, if an opponent has a wide range (say 25% or more) and the board is K56r, you can take a hand like 77 and raise it as a thin bluff (he will probably fold 77, 88, 99, TT, JJ, maybe even QQ or a weak Kx) and to make him fold out all his equity with 89, AJ, QJ and you save yourself from a tough choice where you will rarely make the right decision. This should work with a hands like 89, T9 with a backdoor flushdraw as well.

      Check-Raising the PFR as a bluff. ( E.G. I call in the blinds with a small pocket pair and miss my set )

      The same goes here, you should attack a wide and weak range with a hand than can't take pressure but being OOP I would recommend more hands that just the almost 0 equity bluffs. I would be inclined to raise more gutshots, backdoor straight + overcards and sometimes even the nutflushdraw with the plan to 4bet against a 3bet. When it comes to small pairs, the same applies as IP. Best would be if you know your opponent will fold relatively often to your raise because you don't have equity when called. OOP opponent is less likely to call, while IP he will call wider so hands like draws are better because you have equity and barrel cards, while midpairs and weak backdoor draws have little potential and rely on immediate fold equity the most.


      Also another situation I'm kind of unsure about is this one:

      I raise preflop with AJ / AQ / AK / KQ from middle / late position ( sometimes over some limpers sometimes just an open )

      The board comes down and i have top-pair so i make a C-Bet and someone raises my C-Bet, normally in this situation i'll just fold as it feels really uncomfortable to call because i dont think i have any +EV actions after calling here?

      This depends on your opponent's tendencies. If it's multiway he is very unlikely to be bluffing. In a HU pot though he might be bluffing so you can consider bluffcatching. As a good alternative against someone that raises your cbets reasonably often and you have no ideea what to do is to c/c some strong hands, get to showdown and see what is flatting and barreling. Knowing that will also give you an idea of what he could raise and how to play correctly even OOP.


      If someone could help me out here i'd appreciate it alot :)
      Cheers.
    • DailyDollarPro
      DailyDollarPro
      Silver
      Joined: 11.07.2011 Posts: 145
      Good reasons to bluff raise flop:

      We are heads up with the pre flop aggressor
      Villain has a high c-bet percentage (80%+)
      Villain is not a fish (reasonable or low wtsd stat, < 25%)
      Board is dry
      We can represent a set (board contains small - med cards)
      We have some equity (gut shot or back door flush draw)
      We cant call a blank on the turn

      Good reasons not to bluff raise flop:

      Pot is multi way - more likely someone will call
      Villain is a fish or a rock - fish wont fold, the rock has too strong a range
      Board is wet - more likely to get called
      Board has more than two broadway cards - harder for us to rep a set, more likely villain has top pair
      Villain is short stacked - he has less to lose by calling, will often just go all in