Building a Bankroll......with Verneers book :) ....

    • michel2311
      michel2311
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.11.2011 Posts: 2,121
      Fresh start somewhere at the bottom of page 3.

      My pokerlife

      After a couple of years playing around with play money and busting some minor deposits in november I gave poker a last change. Searching on the internet for a winning strategy I found this site. I thougt: “Wow, make a quiz and get $50 free to start. I read some documents and I go printing money…” After a couple of days/weeks I realized that things wouldn’t be that easy!!! Lucky for me I was break-even on that moment so I made a new fresh start. Study became a part of the game. I played cash 6-max and after a while I passed the $100 which gave me a great boost. In april after 6 months playing at the cashtables I switched to SnG. First to look if this game is something for me and second I’m really fasinated by MTTs and playing SnGs maybe will be a nice step-up.

      At the start I had a bankroll around $175 and because I was new to the game I decided to start playing the 9s $1,50. I started to study, watched several videos and visited some coachings. Nothing could stop me!!! The only thing I didn’t expect was going down right at the start. Like a brick I was going down and down……dropped $50. This was a huge test for my mindset. I was in doubt if SnG was the good game for me, must I play the 45s to make more profit, etc. But I got advise to stay with my game and that if you work on your game the graph will improve. I did make some small adjustments. Starting with not looking to the results anymore, only play STT and turned of the HUD. This resulted in a balanced game that actually was winning. Bit by bit I was climbing up the mountain. I reached the $200 and stayed playing good. Then after playing over 200 games I thougt it was time to move up to the $3,50……result again $60 down in 2 days………but staying with my play I “repaired” this in the last days and have now a total sample of 300+ games. Here is where this blog starts……now back at cashgames again (for good) learning to master the fullring games!!!
  • 70 replies
    • fruktpuff
      fruktpuff
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      Joined: 24.09.2010 Posts: 3,982
      Wecome to our blogging section!

      I'm personally also very much the type of personality who approaches things with "If I am to do something, I want to do it well", so can completely understand that approach!

      It's a very good thing to realize already from the start that there has to be a good balance between playing and studying, makes life so much easier down the road not to need to stop to re-evaluate how to approach it.
      It's important to remember, especially early on, that playing well is far more important than short term results. If you feel you're not able to play well, you have to work on that, if you feel you play well but your results are suffering, do some session reviews and try to figure out spots to improve and learn from. It's hard to try and ignore your actual results shortterm, but can be very important.

      How're you approaching your sessions? Playing consecutively over X tables, or in sets? How many tables at the time for now?

      When you do consider moving to MTsngs, which ones are you looking at? Just the 18st to start with, or 45s and 90s, maybe even 180s too?

      I'll definitely start following your journey through learning and will be interested in seeing how you do!

      Best of luck at the tables(both the ones with chips and the ones with books!) and looking forward to updates!.

      Regards,
      Richard
    • michel2311
      michel2311
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.11.2011 Posts: 2,121
      How're you approaching your sessions? Playing consecutively over X tables, or in sets? How many tables at the time for now?
      I play 4 tables atm. In the beginning I played 2 tables. If I bust on one table than I open a new one. On working days (still got a job :D ) I normally play 2 or 2,5 hours. In the weekend the sessions are much longer. If I play a MTT than I only play 1 table.

      When you do consider moving to MTsngs, which ones are you looking at? Just the 18st to start with, or 45s and 90s, maybe
      This is a very difficult point. I don't know this. There are people that say you should stay with the STT for learning. It's has some benefits like the variance is smaller. On the other hand I played several MTs 18s and 45s and especially the 18s have my attention. Maybe I'm gonna play a small sample of these and then make a choice. 45s/90s are too swingy atm.
    • michel2311
      michel2311
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.11.2011 Posts: 2,121
      Summary of the day:

      Study:
      [x] video watched (introduction to ICM by Unam)
      [ ] ICM trainer

      I really liked the video. It gives a decent explanation about the basics ICM. Gonna rewatch this vid a several times this week before I step to the next level.

      Played:
      1 MTT ($2,20 12k GTD) out before the money made one stupid cbet getting me short...:s_cry:
      15 SnG's 18s and STT, $1,50 and $3,50

      I think the 18s $1,50 are the best thing for now. They pay nice and I think with a bit study they are very beatable. I have a very small sample (around 20 games) but run like god. So plan for next week is only the 18s maybe I take some shots at the $3,50s to look if I can keep up the pace. Tommorow and saturday I also play the $2,20 12GTD just for fun.

      About playing I felt good today. I was not fully focussed because I had some trouble with my son. He had trown up in his bed. So cleaning and poker was the job. :f_eek: At the end I lost some flips but I think my pushes/calls were good. Tommorow I review this session and will post some hands.

      Have a good night!!!
    • michel2311
      michel2311
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.11.2011 Posts: 2,121
      A little update:

      After almost 2 months and 500 games the SnG adventure comes to an end. Last week I asked myself if this was the wright game for me. And if I'm honest this isn't. I really liked it, learned a lot and did make profit but on the long term I don't think it can be my maingame.

      Yesterday I made a decision to go play cashgames again. I cashed out on Stars en moved my BR to WPT poker. I want to make a fresh start!!! I will start with a roll of $250 on NL10. For the moment I will focus on the fullring games. There is enough traffic on the Party-network on this limits.

      My goals stays the same. Study to become a better and winning player!!!

      BRM:
      If my BR drops under $200 I will move down to NL5. And I don't think about upmoving!!

      To refresh some things I gonna reread the bronze documents and watch crushing NL50-serie. Also want to finish the beginners course. And if someone has some must-see videos....... :coolface:
    • michel2311
      michel2311
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.11.2011 Posts: 2,121
      I ordered the pdf-version of Verneers "Building a Bankroll" and will use it to study and become a better player. Maybe I post some thoughts about this book when I'm reading it. First gonna try to print it, Bluefire on android suck. :s_evil:

      Because I don't spend other money then my roll on pokerthings it has affected my roll. Result that I drop back to NL5 without playing..........
    • martijnde666
      martijnde666
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      Joined: 29.02.2008 Posts: 4,549
      Do you play ZOOM poker or regular tables?
    • michel2311
      michel2311
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.11.2011 Posts: 2,121
      Because I want to "protect" myself against Zoom I yesterday switched to WPT. Zoom is too fast for me!!! I make stupid plays, get coolers, go on tilt and lose a lot of money!!! Maybe when I really beat a limit I try Zoom again.
    • fruktpuff
      fruktpuff
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.09.2010 Posts: 3,982
      Ooh, I hadn't realized Verneer's book was already out as PDF, that's great news.

      Will you be playing fullring or shorthanded cash on WPT?
    • michel2311
      michel2311
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.11.2011 Posts: 2,121
      I discovered it by accident. This book stood on my wishlist since the day it came out. I did read Verneers treads on 2+2 and think this is a great book. Only when I decided to play SnG this book doesn't help very much. Now that I know that I'm a cash-player I looked again at his website and saw a pdf. Ther is also a Russian translation is available.

      Because I want to follow the book I will play FR for the moment. I know I have played SH and make some profit there. But I think with a solid SHC and little post-flop skill everyone can do this on NL5.
    • michel2311
      michel2311
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      Joined: 14.11.2011 Posts: 2,121
      Read the first 4 chapters of the book. Unfortunately I can't print the book. But it works with the adobe reader on the pc and my android phone. I decided that I go chapter by chapter through the book and try to aply it in my game.

      First 3 chapters are introduction, accepting variance and bankrollmanagement. Things that are easy to understand but difficult to aply. Only time will tell.....but I don't worry about these things. I think I have the disipline to persist a good BRM. (good english???)

      Chapter 4 covers developing reads. A part that I don't know much about. This chapter I will read multiple times the next days to understand it. In the session I played I tagged players according this chapter. Only thing to do is making notes. Question about this is if you make notes when you play or when you review in HM? Maybe someone can answer that.....

      Last but not least I played a session of 250 hands on NL5. Because I had some trouble with the money transfer I played this on Stars. It's still an option to stay here but avoid the zoom games!!! During play I use the Pokerstrategy SHC just to get a good base.

      One hand which I don't know if I played well is this one:

      Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      MP1: $4.25 (85 bb)
      MP2: $2.93 (58.6 bb)
      MP3: $2.92 (58.4 bb)
      CO: $1.93 (38.6 bb)
      Hero (BTN): $5 (100 bb)
      SB: $6.77 (135.4 bb)
      BB: $5.50 (110 bb)
      UTG+2: $2.60 (52 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BTN with Q A
      UTG+2 raises to $0.10, 2 folds, MP3 raises to $0.15, CO calls $0.15, Hero calls $0.15, 2 folds, UTG+2 calls $0.05

      Flop: ($0.67) 2 7 5 (4 players)
      UTG+2 checks, MP3 bets $0.65, CO calls $0.65, Hero calls $0.65, UTG+2 folds

      Turn: ($2.62) 5 (3 players)
      MP3 bets $2.12 and is all-in, CO folds, Hero ????

      Can I call this one? Imo potodds are 2,2:1 and with 9 outs I have not the odds to call???
    • Castle93
      Castle93
      Silver
      Joined: 06.06.2011 Posts: 1,456
      assuming he has an overpair yu only have 8 outs to the flush, because either he is holding a heart in his pair, or if he isnt then one of the hearts making him a FH, unless hes holding AA, you also have your 3 outs to the ace, so 11 outs, he might not have QQ+ and your Queen outs are good to but with 11 outs


      2.2:1 pot odds yu still cant call, putting him on a range on like 99+, which your only 29% against so he needs to be bluffing/semi bluffing sometimes as well to make a marginal call
    • William340
      William340
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.02.2012 Posts: 170
      with the board paired, there is also a possibility that you are drawing dead (to 22, 77, 55).
      without some prior history on the villiain's behavior you should lay this down and wait for a better spot.
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,888
      LOL min3bet! when he does that and cbets flop this strongly i put him on AA type of hands mostly :f_biggrin:

      i think i'd play it the same way, we're drawing to the nuts, can probably stack min3bettor if we hit and CO gives reasonable odds
    • michel2311
      michel2311
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.11.2011 Posts: 2,121
      Thanks for the comments!! I actually folded the AQs keeping in mind that even if I hitted my flush here it wouldn't be good enough. On the flop I think my call is fine because it's a multiway pot and I think I have good(implied) odds here.

      I finished reading chapter 4 (develop reads) but I must reread this a several times. Getting reads and classify villians is very important. You can't adjust your style and exploit them if you don't have reads....

      Now reading chapter 5. In tonights session I will use "the verneer ORC" as startingpoint. Maybe when I feel comfortable with it I can adjust when I collect reads during play. After a couple of thousand hands I will make review to adjust this starting range.
    • michel2311
      michel2311
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.11.2011 Posts: 2,121
      Almost 600 hands played in 2 days, what a volume. :coolface: Gonna try to make some volume tommorow or in the weekend.

      Today I played for the first time with the opening range as told in Verneers book. It's a bit looser than I was used to play but I liked it. A thing I changed in my thinking process is that I really try to think about every hand:

      Preflop:
      1. What's my position
      2. What's my hand
      3. What's happened before me and who did what
      4. What's gonna happen after me and what want I to do then

      I probably forget some things here but I think this is a huge step for me. What I used to do was "oh, not on the chart: FOLD". Now I'm really thinking about what I do!!!

      When I have a sample of 5k hand I post a graph and some stats so you all can judge me. :f_biggrin:
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,888
      Originally posted by michel2311
      sample of 5k
      ?( :f_biggrin:

      but yeah, plan seems good :D
    • michel2311
      michel2311
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.11.2011 Posts: 2,121
      I know it's not a sample but I don't make huge amounts of volume so 10k would take very long. :D

      And the question for today. Fold the turn or good play??? Player is 28/3/0 over 36 hands.

      Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 7 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $16.50 (330 bb)
      BB: $13.42 (268.4 bb)
      Hero (MP1): $5 (100 bb)
      MP2: $4 (80 bb)
      MP3: $4 (80 bb)
      CO: $2.93 (58.6 bb)
      BTN: $1.82 (36.4 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K K
      Hero raises to $0.15, 5 folds, BB calls $0.10

      Flop: ($0.32) 3 7 T (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $0.15, BB calls $0.15

      Turn: ($0.62) 2 (2 players)
      BB bets $0.29, Hero raises to $0.75, BB raises to $1.85, Hero calls $1.10

      River: ($4.32) 5 (2 players)
      BB bets $2.07, Hero calls $2.07
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,888
      sucks but i think it's a crying fold. donk/3bet is usually a value line

      of course it could happen that he thinks AT is the nuts but i think he has better than 1 pair more often
    • verneer
      verneer
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.08.2009 Posts: 366
      I think raise/folding KK on the turn makes sense.