[NL2-NL10] NL10 zoom deepstack set, learn from my mistake and fold turn

    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      PokerStars Zoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

      Hero (Button) ($18.89)
      SB ($10)
      BB ($26.26)
      UTG ($21.01)
      UTG+1 ($10)
      MP1 ($7.28)
      MP2 ($20.25)
      MP3 ($5)
      CO ($15.18)

      Preflop: Hero is Button with 10, 10
      UTG bets $0.30, 5 folds, Hero calls $0.30, 2 folds

      Flop: ($0.75) 4, 10, 5 (2 players)
      UTG bets $0.50, Hero raises to $1.50, UTG calls $1

      Turn: ($3.75) Q (2 players)
      UTG checks, Hero bets $2.80, UTG raises to $7.20, Hero calls $4.40

      River: ($18.15) 7 (2 players)
      UTG bets $12.01 (All-In), Hero calls $9.89 (All-In)

      Total pot: $37.93 | Rake: $1.50


      Very obvious whats happened here. Just fold turn. I do not believe anyone who says I should get it in, this is a 100% fold on turn. Just posting because I didn't listen to my common sense and called anyway.

      GG


      edit; Forgot to say that whilst the fold seemed obvious to me at the time I definitely don't think its easy :/
  • 16 replies
    • FlashDavin
      FlashDavin
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2011 Posts: 421
      Lol how is this an easy fold?

      You have the second best possible hand on the turn and it's not even a 3bet pot so his range is still fairly wide.

      I ship turn easily.
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Then you lose. Look how big he raises turn, its just so obvious. Would bottom set ever raise that big? Even middle set will be somewhat scared because we are deep.

      Next point; EP opening range. What is a standard reg opening? I think its tightening up to 66 77 or 88+, so what is he playing back on turn with?

      Oh, and remember its zoom. Just because something is an easy ship in normal games doesn't make it an easy ship in zoom.
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,868
      not sure what to say here

      this is not just a troll comment
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Aww, join the game Tomaloc it'll be fun!
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,868
      i'll be joining NL10FR day 1 next month :D

      it quite depends on if he even raises 44/55 UTG. else our only hope is for him to have AA/KK AHAHAH :f_eek:

      are we supposed to fold 2nd nuts at zoom? maybe? :D
    • mrbeer9999
      mrbeer9999
      Basic
      Joined: 11.12.2010 Posts: 182
      Is the villain unknown?
    • FlashDavin
      FlashDavin
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2011 Posts: 421
      If you post his stats then I can maybe make a fold here...

      It would need to be like 8/6

      WTD 15
      W$SD 60

      For me.
    • mrbeer9999
      mrbeer9999
      Basic
      Joined: 11.12.2010 Posts: 182
      Originally posted by FlashDavin
      If you post his stats then I can maybe make a fold here...

      It would need to be like 8/6

      WTD 15
      W$SD 60

      For me.
      Yes and also Raise_Flop 0% (0 of 50), Raise_Turn 0% (0 of 20) :)
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Only 64 hands on villain so we can't tell too much, standard seeming zoom reg imo. We shouldn't be going too stats dependent here.

      eg. he's 16/14 now..... He could easily be an 8/6 nit
      he's 8/6 now, he could have just had a bad run of cards and be a SLAG.
      He's 12/10 but turn out to be an aggressive Semi-Lag.


      The main thing we know is that he seems like a zoom reg who is not too out of the ordinary. I don't want to base my decision on stats alone but on a feel for how the standard zoom regular would play this.

      p.s. I didn't use to be this way about stats but it was recently revealed to me how wrong stat convergence can be when I got AA ai Deep in an 8 high 3bet pot vs a 2/2 EP open-raiser with a sample of 150 hands. I feel it illustrated that a much bigger sample is needed to start making big decisions based on small variations in stats.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello DaPhunk,

      How can you put an opponent on QQ almost always here but not 44/55? I don't really see how I would be folding here without any information. Ship it.

      Best Regards.
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Through game-flow it was just extremely obvious to me he was on over-pair turned top set, but I wasn't able to listen to myself and shipped it because "He can be doing this with 44/55".

      If he's aggressive with a set as he demonstrates on turn why not 3bet flop?

      If he's decided to slow-play it why not C/C it turn and C/R river like the other zoom FR nits?

      It is still less likely for him to have 44 and 55 in his opening range than QQ.

      Once again, just because he can be doing this with 44 or 55 probably isn't a valid reason for me to get it in given some of the other lines he could be very often taking with them but I can imagine him doing this with QQ a looot.


      If flop is T54 two-tone you raise a cbet, he calls and then on a 3rd heart turn he check/raises what are your immediate thoughts? I think an A K or Q on turn hit his range strongly enough here that you have to feel very often dominated (not quite so much obviously) and far less often ahead to a move of pure strength like this one.

      Note if turn is a J i'm completely fine with shipping it in.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      If you think it this way as why wouldn't he 3bet sets on the flop -> then why would he Check/Raise with QQ on the turn? :) Where practically everything folds which ain't a set. He could as well Check/Call the turn and Check/Shove river.
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      What I mean, is I'm supposing there would be two different player types;

      A) Villain thinks; I have set he raises, I C/C turn and C/R river. Trap.

      B) Villain thinks'; He looks strong, I raise my set and get it in.


      After the villain takes this raise turn line I would have thought he should belong to group A). However, he didn't raise flop so it becomes more likely he just picked up his set on turn and went for the Check/Raise.


      Do you catch my drift?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by DaPhunk
      What I mean, is I'm supposing there would be two different player types;

      A) Villain thinks; I have set he raises, I C/C turn and C/R river. Trap.

      B) Villain thinks'; He looks strong, I raise my set and get it in.


      After the villain takes this raise turn line I would have thought he should belong to group A). However, he didn't raise flop so it becomes more likely he just picked up his set on turn and went for the Check/Raise.


      Do you catch my drift?
      Not really, cause you as Hero would beat just a bluff there if you Call with overpairs or whatsoever hands. Can't see you to continue without having a set here. So his play doesn't make sense either. :)

      Also why shouldn't he Check/Raise with 44/55, I still don't get it. If he raises with QQ then he will also raise with smaller PPs and I would assuming him being deep he is also opening those PPs.
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Oops, I made a mistake.

      His check/raise turn suggests to me he is in the group B) of players who would like to 3bet their set and get it in when they face a strong move like my flop one. However Villain check/raises turn which suggests to me he actually hit his hand on turn not flop.

      If the villain belonged to group A) he would be check/calling turn when he turns top set as well as continuing playing 44 and 55 passively.


      This is just an arbitrary grouping of players I've made through playing zoom. The quick player and the super slow-player.

      Does it make slightly more sense now?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      No, I am not folding this unless I have 44/55 here. :) What do you think how would he play with 44/55 then here? Check/Call flop/turn/river just cause he might be against better set?

      Don't even understand why do you argue here? Just cause you saw him having QQ? Don't be result oriented mate. ;)