[NL2-NL10] FR5 ZOOM 22 set

    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,859
      PokerStars - $0.05 NL ZOOM - Holdem - 9 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BTN: $9.41
      SB: $6.45
      BB: $5.00
      UTG: $13.95
      UTG+1: $6.17
      UTG+2: $5.13
      MP: $9.67
      MP+1: $13.15
      Hero (CO): $5.09

      SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

      Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has 2:diamond: 2:heart:

      fold, fold, UTG+2 raises to $0.15, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.15, fold, fold, fold

      Flop: ($0.37, 2 players) K:club: A:spade: 2:club:
      UTG+2 bets $0.20, Hero raises to $0.58, UTG+2 calls $0.38

      just zombified. raaaaaaaaiiiiiseee
      do we ship it if facing action? maybe KK+, AK


      Board: K:club: A:spade: 2:club:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      UTG+2  49.23%  49.23%   0.00% { KK+, AKs, AKo }
      CO     50.77%  50.77%   0.00% { 2d2h }


      depends on how many Ax he wants to ship i guess. still i don't see we ever being a massive favourite


      Board: K:club: A:spade: 2:club:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      UTG+2  42.50%  42.50%   0.00% { KK+, AQs+, AcJc, AKo }
      CO     57.50%  57.50%   0.00% { 2d2h }


      still 50% is enough because of the dead money so i guess i should ship flop. i probably would


      Turn: ($1.53, 2 players) K:heart:
      UTG+2 checks, Hero bets $0.97, fold

      i hate this card because AK improves :f_eek: and Ax may be less likely to continue
      how to proceed? not sure if there is another way actually, turn it into bluff-catcher? what?
      still i think i was soooo going for bet/fold in this specific turn card which seems the right thing when thinking about ranges, but it just doesn't feel right

      Hero wins $1.47


      i felt quite relieved when he folded actually ;(
      shouldn't play when tired
  • 10 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Tomaloc,

      I'd most likely raise it even bigger on the flop and plan to play for the stacks. He could also have even worse Ax hands which pay you. :)

      Best Regards.
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,859
      how many worse Ax is he going to ship with while it's zoom utg? :f_frown: still i'd ship flop because we should be at least 50%

      how to play this turn? it really sucks because it cuts the amount of worse hands in his range and hands which pay by a lot :f_mad: Ax would be much better
      i'm beginning to see some merit in check/calling ?( but doesn't make a lot of sense
    • Gantz189
      Gantz189
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.07.2011 Posts: 39
      I don't like check-calling on this flop. The K turn was an action killer. Otherwise I can see him paying off his Ax hands on blank turns.

      Could've also raised bigger as his most likely to come along with the hands you put him on.

      well played =)
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Tomaloc
      how many worse Ax is he going to ship with while it's zoom utg? :f_frown: still i'd ship flop because we should be at least 50%

      how to play this turn? it really sucks because it cuts the amount of worse hands in his range and hands which pay by a lot :f_mad: Ax would be much better
      i'm beginning to see some merit in check/calling ?( but doesn't make a lot of sense
      Well, just question. With what did he Call the flop then? JJ/QQ? :f_biggrin:

      Don't play ZOOM, that's just my advice if you want to learn real poker. ;) You don't improve while just playing robotic fold-fold-fold-fold-set mining game. :f_biggrin:
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,859
      Originally posted by veriz
      Well, just question. With what did he Call the flop then? JJ/QQ? :f_biggrin:
      no idea :f_biggrin: i was like "really?"
      something like this? i include some nut combos because they take these weird lines so often


      Board: K:club: A:spade: 2:club:  K:heart:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      UTG+2  33.47%  33.47%   0.00% { AhAc, KdKs, AQs+, AcJc, AcTc, AcQd, AcQh, AcQs }
      CO     66.53%  66.53%   0.00% { 2d2h }


      it's kind of funny because i doubt that he ships the nut part of this range, so i can't really b/f turn, but c/f river seems just like ?(

      Originally posted by veriz
      Don't play ZOOM, that's just my advice if you want to learn real poker. ;) You don't improve while just playing robotic fold-fold-fold-fold-set mining game. :f_biggrin:
      i guess this can be closely related to my "no idea" comment :f_biggrin:
      this got me thinking. i see the point but i don't want to :f_cry:

      i've been quite printing money, i think i have an edge in all streets :f_eek:
      and also probably better equipped than most with PT4 autonotes + manual biggest pots review
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Yeah well... how much money do you make in NL5 anyways? :f_biggrin: We should be rather learning there than concentrating on making money. :D Money will come after.
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,859
      Originally posted by veriz
      Yeah well... how much money do you make in NL5 anyways? :f_biggrin: We should be rather learning there than concentrating on making money. :D Money will come after.
      definitely :D but i love the zoom dynamics... and i don't think i'm already just playing auto :P

      i'm well rolled for NL10, should just move up already.. was going to move up next month but already got to 32 NL10 BI :f_confused:
      anyway my original "move roll to stars" plan was to just keep moving in zoom until i stagnate and start to break even... :f_eek:

      maybe i could "take a break" when i'm rolled for NL16, there are no zoom tables there :f_biggrin: then come back for NL25 etc :f_biggrin:
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      25BIs is enough. :) My advice go back to normal tables, I am pretty sure that you autopilot enough, if even non-zoom students of mine do autopilot a lot then I doubt that it's different for you with ZOOM, common mistake. Especially for FR, where you kind of have to do it there. :D

      But of course ZOOM is fun and for it I don't mind playing. But not sure how much you can learn from it (usually people put less time into learning while playing a lot hands). :D
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,859
      i see your points. still i'm not sure if i can just leave zoom, it's like poker crack or something :f_biggrin:


      what do you think about forming a study group for zoom?
      i know everyone says that's awesomely superb for "normal tables" but what for zoom? do you think that can be a reasonable way to get around the "zoom learning" problems?
      talking strategy and having sweat sessions regularly seems like it could be a good way to fix the issues related with autopiloting
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      ZOOM is still a bit different world, I wouldn't want to talk here about specific things how and why I would play it differently cause for that I would have to write articles or makes videos. :D

      Just take a look at one of the hands which you posted, good example where you kind of autopilot cause you can easily just fold and get better hand while being most likely ahead vs his range. :D (AK hand)

      Creating study groups is always good but how much it will help you. :P For example what would you get from a guy who plays the same limits as you do? I mean do you think you can learn a lot from him? Maybe you already playing much better than he does, therefore higher level members needed. :) My advice is just to stick to the videos/forum/articles and wait for proper content for ZOOM.

      I know that it's fun and really easy to get hands and tables but you must also take into account that there you most likely will earn a lot worse winrate. So if you had a winrate of 1-2 earlier then might be break-even for ZOOM. :P Why? Cause even fish plays there tight.