3 bet pre flop?

    • noz03
      noz03
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.03.2012 Posts: 129
      Just a quick question... If a players stats (pt3 etc.) show that he almost always folds to 3bets pre flop, should you stop 3betting aa/kk against him?

      Also, should you 3bet weaker hands against him like AQ or JJ?

      All this is based on micros btw so none of the players there are good enough to work out what you were doing.
  • 9 replies
    • TiciBoy
      TiciBoy
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.01.2010 Posts: 1,235
      You should "always" 3bet AQ, JJ.

      Don't slowplay and cold cal AA/KK. You will get in tough situations on many flops.
      What would you do if you called with KK and flop came Axx? Or called behind AA and flop came 789 monotone or 9TT double suited and opponent showed aggression? No need to complicate your life in micros. Just play straight forward, fish won't exploit you.
    • muel294
      muel294
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      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,207
      depends on the sample size. But if you're going to call I would only do it IP and TBH you cant go far wrong by 3b'ing him all the time with KK+. If someone is folding to 3b's more than 80% over a decent sample then I would just camp out to their left and 3b their CO opens with a polarised range, i.e SC's or QQ+ and AK+. If he doesn't adjust by 4betting more, calling down more or tightening his opening range then keep on doing it.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Hi,

      I wrote quite a few posts on 3betting before. You can find them here.

      AK and QQ preflop on lower stakes

      What's more important while 3betting, history or stats?

      If you still have questions afterwards, let me know.

      Don't forget you are playing vs a human, not a bot that does stuff with exact frequency so you have to take into account his reaction to your actions.

      Regards,
      Manu,
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      i prefer to 3bet "trash" like 98s type of hands, blocker hands like A6s. 3bet/stack off with KK+ :f_p:

      i call everything else (including QQ, AK) because... well, since he folds everything how are you going to get value?
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Don't just call a raise with KK ever in the micros. Because so many fish will raise with A6 etc, if you just call with kings and an ace comes the pot is gone, you have to credit them with an ace even if they're just stupidly betting a low pocket pair.

      Aces are a different story, its very rare that they'll be outflopped so I do think SOMETIMES you can just call here in position. If your opponent is one to donk bet a decent amount then its actually quite a good play because you can rely on them to bet and raise them, getting a lot more than if they just folded to a 3bet pre. Of course if you can't ever lay down aces to a wet board and a big bet from the villain then I'd say just 3 bet them and take the money without having to make difficult decisions.
    • jonnyjm
      jonnyjm
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      Joined: 24.03.2008 Posts: 447
      If they are nearly always folding to 3bets you should start adding hands like: 54s (suited conectors), 75s (Suited one gappers), suited blockers (A5s, K2s), you can go futher ans 3bet low PP's but that's not essential as you can still opt to set mine.

      Theres an agrument for and against still 3beting hands like AA-KK, never a mistake doing so, although its rare you are going to maxamize value this way. Flat calling if a solid option as you allow second best hands like AQ, AJ, A-10, KQ, KJ, QJ etc to connect and give you some value you'd miss by 3-betting. Also you allow flops like: 7-5-2 to come increasing potential value from hands like 10-10 & J-J.

      If you plan on flatting AA and KK you will have to be able to make the occasional disciplined fold post flop otherwise you'll start leaking chips.
    • jonnyjm
      jonnyjm
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.03.2008 Posts: 447
      Originally posted by metza
      Don't just call a raise with KK ever in the micros.
      This is broad thinking and you'll miss out on value, poker is a dynamic game and each villain should be treated as an indervidual.

      Originally posted by Tomaloc
      i prefer to 3bet "trash" like 98s type of hands, blocker hands like A6s. 3bet/stack off with KK+ :f_p:

      i call everything else (including QQ, AK) because... well, since he folds everything how are you going to get value?
      This person has the right idea.
    • noz03
      noz03
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.03.2012 Posts: 129
      Yeah I guess an ace would mess things up a bit if you have kk, but i think aces only come up on about 30% of flops, so the other 70% of the time you are going to get good value from his cbets, and maybe he will hit the top pair and go all in. I guess its pretty marginal with kings but aces at least I think its worth it against a player with a lot of fold to 3bets behind him.
    • jonnyjm
      jonnyjm
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.03.2008 Posts: 447
      Originally posted by noz03
      Yeah I guess an ace would mess things up a bit if you have kk, but i think aces only come up on about 30% of flops, so the other 70% of the time you are going to get good value from his cbets, and maybe he will hit the top pair and go all in. I guess its pretty marginal with kings but aces at least I think its worth it against a player with a lot of fold to 3bets behind him.
      With KK, even with A-high flops you can still extract some value, just need to use the correct line than minimizes loses vs AK/AQ and maxamizes profits vs QQ-JJ-TT-99. You'll still be able to get 1 street of value from these hands (offten on the turn), an exarmple:

      your playing a NL100 6-max game and MP raises to $3. You decide to flat with KK because he folds to 3bets 95% of the time, blinds fold and you see a flop, pot @ $7.50.

      Flop comes: A-7-3.

      Villan checks and you also check

      Turn: 2

      either villan checks and you bet $3 to $4. Your betting here for value from PP's between QQ-88 as well as betting for a free show down.



      If villan bets the flop you can either just fold or float (folding to a barrel on the turn).