best HUD for 6max

  • 20 replies
    • datsmahname
      datsmahname
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      Joined: 23.11.2009 Posts: 1,366
      Hey Janka,

      Aside from the standard stats, I like to use c-bet and donk bet by street, fold vs c-bet and raise by street and W$SD when raised.

      Picking a decent layout is tricky. If you're on FR then table real-estate will be limited. I use a separate HUD when switching it up and that really helps. I play 6max myself and still find its hard to fit them all in. HU players don't know how well they have it in this respect :)

      I also found that the more I understood my stats the more useful they became.
    • taavi1337
      taavi1337
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      Joined: 29.05.2009 Posts: 2,920
      My HUD looks like this: player name - hands
      2nd row: VPIP, PFR, AF, WTSD
      3rd row is: 3bet, Steal (useless! must get rid of it), fold SB to steal, fold BB to steal

      I have some solid default popups in HEM1. Preflop it's good to have positional VPIP, PFR, raise first, 3bet. That means you should be able to look how much your opponent raises first in from BU and 3bets from CO etc.

      I basically always click on the stats and use the opening popups to look for positional stats as they're the most accurate, especially because I play lots of 3-5handed as well.

      Postflop it's nice to look at Fold to flop Cbet, fold to turn cbet, fold to river cbet, also checkraise flop, checkraise turn, checkraise river and AF% for flop turn and river. And of course Cbet flop, turn, river. Donkbet Flop is also important, as well as Steal limped pot. HEM has lots of good stuff by default!
    • YohanN7
      YohanN7
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      Joined: 15.06.2009 Posts: 4,086
      Originally posted by datsmahname
      ...
      I also found that the more I understood my stats the more useful they became.
      Precisely!

      Try to figure out (in advance) how to handle some particular piece of information. Then decide what you want to know the most about your opponents. Add those pieces (and not much more). When these pieces of info work well, then (and only then) think about adding more.

      /Johan = :f_confused:
    • CookieCCFC
      CookieCCFC
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      Joined: 25.07.2011 Posts: 21
      Hmmm I hadn't thought of editing my popup stats. I play Turbo so don't really have the time...at least that's what I think...
    • datsmahname
      datsmahname
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      Joined: 23.11.2009 Posts: 1,366
      Originally posted by YohanN7
      Originally posted by datsmahname
      ...
      I also found that the more I understood my stats the more useful they became.
      Precisely!

      Try to figure out (in advance) how to handle some particular piece of information. Then decide what you want to know the most about your opponents. Add those pieces (and not much more). When these pieces of info work well, then (and only then) think about adding more.

      /Johan = :f_confused:
      Yeah, and looking back I should have written that in the present tense. By no means have I "understood" everything there is to know about any one stat.
    • YohanN7
      YohanN7
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      Joined: 15.06.2009 Posts: 4,086
      On the other hand...

      When playing Limit Hold'em it pretty much doesn't matter which button you press and why you press it. Unless, of course, you are playing 80 million hands per day. Then those "right" decisions might just gain you a big bet or two - provided that you are lucky that particular day.

      Please disregard this post. I'm on tilt. But what I just said is alarmingly close to the truth, tilt or no tilt.

      /Johan = :f_confused:
    • datsmahname
      datsmahname
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      Joined: 23.11.2009 Posts: 1,366
      If you don't intend to make money then you're right we don't need a reason to press buttons randomly.

      If you want to make money then you need to fight to think clearly, especially when its difficult.
    • YohanN7
      YohanN7
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      Joined: 15.06.2009 Posts: 4,086
      You missed the key sentece datsmahname :D

      Originally posted by YohanN7
      ...
      Please disregard this post. I'm on tilt.
      Other than that, you are right of course. But there is a measure of truth in that gaining an edge in Limit Hold'em is extremely difficult. Take the Polaris story for instace. There are probably a Ph.D. thesis or two behind that player. Still, you and I can surely beat it over 1 000 hands with just a little bit of luck.

      I don't really play for money, but without money there would be no poker. It's the thrill of playing and trying to playing well, that keeps me at the tables. Todays thrill was to eventually break even by actually wearing down a player I had pegged as decent before in HU.

      Back to the thread topic: One stat that I find useful is "Check-Raise Turn". C-betting on the flop with intiative is usually a no-brainer. The second barrel isn't, so in these situations opponent tendencies when it comes to check-raising is as important as my cards and the board for my decision.

      Donk bets are interesting too of course. These are probably more of a headache at the lower limits (where I swim).

      But no stats whatsoever are better than player notes. If you know why the opponent checkraises on turn or why he donks, then it's a lot easier.

      There is one stat that I'd like to have, but it probably doesn't exist. How easy is it to induce bluffs? Some players are close to 100% reliable in this respect.

      Strangely enough, the mandatory VPIP and PFR doesn't tell that much other than that they remind you of what you knew before (say a familliar player joined the table). If the numbers have stabilized, then it might be that the player haven't. People usually go from loose to tight, and from passive to aggressive - or they go broke.

      Sure, given fairly tight VPIP and PFR numbers, then we can put villain on a fairly exact range and go to equilab and calulate the correct move. But this requires that you have 1000+ hands on your opponent - in which case you know his manners anyway beacuse you play with him day and night.

      The difference between PFR and VPIP is quite useful (for tight ranges), mostly for figuring out if they are flatting monsters in BB. Some always do that, others never. Knowing for sure that your opponent doesn't have a monster (or that he might have one) helps.

      Watch the hands they show down. Those reads are a lot more accurate than that 200 hands sample saying VPIP=25%. They still may or may not play any two suited from the CO. If they flatcall AA in BB one time, they probably do that every time. Take notes.

      One more thing: The shorter the table the less stats are worth. It's questionable wether stats are of any use att all in heads up match. I you notice that your opponent has folded three times i a row on the button, then guess what: Your opponent has noticed that too. And he knows that you know that he folded three times in a row. You take it from there.

      /Johan = :f_confused:
    • jonnyjm
      jonnyjm
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      Joined: 24.03.2008 Posts: 447
      There is no such thing as "best HUD". Why? Everyone plays differently and has there own style, so stats player A uses might not be the same stats player B uses and then player C might use different stats again.
    • Avataren
      Avataren
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      Joined: 28.04.2010 Posts: 1,621
      Originally posted by jonnyjm
      There is no such thing as "best HUD". Why? Everyone plays differently and has there own style, so stats player A uses might not be the same stats player B uses and then player C might use different stats again.
      +1
    • madorjan
      madorjan
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      Joined: 13.11.2009 Posts: 5,561
      Sorry to bump this post, but it's a real pain in my belly this question.

      There is no perfect HUD, as people before me said. When people ask me what HUD-stats they should use, I usually answer them, that probably none, if they ask this question.

      Using a HUD is not necessarily a +EV thing, unless you can understand and process the information on it correctly. I see lots and lots of players (even really good ones) misunderstanding and therefore misusing the stats the HUD presents to them. The typical example is using VPIP/PFR to determine a player's openraising tendencies. You can't. You can estimate, and that's gonna be true for the general player pool, but not for individual players. Therefore I rarely use VPIP/PFR to determine someone's exact preflop range, I use the Raise First In stats for this. (Honestly, I find VPIP and PFR to be pretty useless for anything outside of determining a player's preflop tendencies.) And I saw dozens of people not understanding the values in their HUD, and therefore making bad decisions based on the badly processed information they got from their HUD. Use the exact stats you're sure you can use and understand them correctly, nothing else!
    • M3lchior
      M3lchior
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      Joined: 02.06.2011 Posts: 27
      It may be just me, but it seems that with a proper table selection and decent preflop aggresion, gaining an edge in fixed limit especially on micro stakes is extremely easy as there is a real shortage of good FL players. Am I missing something ? Find a fish -> fit or fold works most of the time (and yes, "fit" can mean ace high vs. some players).

      I find the HUD VERY useful. PFR/VPIP really is of no use if a player falls somewhere between 30/25 to 20/15 or somesuch, because it tells you positively nothing about his real range - he can be about anything. But if you get a guy with 60/10 or 50/5 and I've seen a LOT of those in micro stakes FL 6-max you can be 90% sure that he is a fish and he will pay you a lot. And If somebody gets over 30 PFR you can be sure he raises too much and that he can be exploited all day long. Sure you have to observe hands, make notes etc. etc., but still. It's not really useful for determining precise range, but really helps if you multitable and have some hard data. It can say "Hello I'm fish, exploit me." or "Hello, I'm reasonable, don't hit me."
    • taavi1337
      taavi1337
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      Joined: 29.05.2009 Posts: 2,920
      I agree a lot with M3lchior here
    • Avataren
      Avataren
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      Joined: 28.04.2010 Posts: 1,621
      I agree a lot with taavi1337 here
    • Boomer2k10
      Boomer2k10
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      Joined: 22.09.2010 Posts: 2,551
      Personally I think the above mindset is extremely capping on your ability but it is true at the lower micros

      I do agree though that many people with complicated HUDs actually have no idea how to use the information being given to them or make great changes based on stats which either haven't converged or they don't know what to do with those stats
    • madorjan
      madorjan
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      Joined: 13.11.2009 Posts: 5,561
      I agree a lot with Boomer here
    • taavi1337
      taavi1337
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      Joined: 29.05.2009 Posts: 2,920
      I agree
    • Avataren
      Avataren
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      Joined: 28.04.2010 Posts: 1,621
      I agree more.
    • JLeitmotiv
      JLeitmotiv
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      Joined: 02.01.2009 Posts: 756
      paradoxically, I agree with Taavi, but obviously I do not agree with Avataren
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