[NL20-NL50] [SH] NL 50 QQ vs cold 4bet

    • DeMarcohsp
      DeMarcohsp
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,975
      Poker Stars $50.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1777572
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      MP: $90.43 - VPIP: 28, PFR: 17, 3B: 6, AF: 1.7, Hands: 109
      Hero (CO): $63.52
      BTN: $24.11 - VPIP: 17, PFR: 17, 3B: 9, AF: 15.0, Hands: 215
      SB: $5.36 - VPIP: 62, PFR: 17, 3B: 11, AF: 2.3, Hands: 29
      BB: $78.96 - VPIP: 15, PFR: 14, 3B: 10, AF: 1.7, Hands: 147
      UTG: $48.32 - VPIP: 19, PFR: 16, 3B: 14, AF: 7.0, Hands: 79

      Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is CO with Q :heart: Q :spade:
      1 fold, MP raises to $1.50, Hero raises to $5.50, 2 folds, BB raises to $12, 1 fold, Hero calls $6.50

      Flop: ($25.75) Q :diamond: K :diamond: 6 :diamond: (2 players)
      BB bets $9.25, Hero raises to $51.52, BB calls $42.27

      I think I should've folded preflop as I don't have to expect anything else than KK+ vs this guy.
      How would you play it? Do you think that mining for a set is going to be good here? Being a little deeper inclined me towards this.

      And I was playing 34/29 on the table :P .
  • 12 replies
    • HansTheGreat
      HansTheGreat
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.02.2010 Posts: 3,807
      Hey DeMarcohsp,

      Well I dont play SH but still I think if you expect him take such a line with KK+ I prefer a fold preflop. Because you guys arent deep enough to set mine correctly(for 3bet is Call 15 rule dont know for 4bets but even it is Call10 it is going to be very close because you dont have that kind of a big stack).
      Another thought is I wouldnt expect him to take such a line only with KK+ and you still had a maniac image and certainly at least I wouldnt do it only with KK+ :P . Anyway I dont play SH so.....at least I shared my thoughts!GL!
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Hey man,

      For me it's a fold vs his cold 4bet. That guy looks pretty nitty so far and we never get it in good here. Also, we can't rly call since we aren't getting the odds to setmine.

      As played we have to go broke offcourse on the flop but I think that this tight guy is going to fold AA without a diamond if we shove the flop here so I make my raise a little bit less expensive. Interesting to see veriz thoughts about the flop :) .
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello DeMarcohsp,

      Preflop: Such a guy will almost always have there KK+ and therefore we have to fold it preflop. :f_cry: Although the odds are something like 11:1 so shouldn't be even that huge mistake if you play only for set-mining (while we consider his range being very strong and paying off very often).

      As played
      Postflop: Not much to comment, we ain't really folding our set as long we even hit it. :D He can also have AA in his range and not only KK.

      Best Regards.
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Does it make any difference to just raise or to shove to flop?
      Are you not afraid he folds AA to a raise? If he hasn't a diamond...
    • DeMarcohsp
      DeMarcohsp
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,975
      What size to raise to then? It looks like we commit even if we minraise imo, and might look even more nuttish this way.
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      I'm thinking about calling since he can have 2 (3) things here:
      - KK
      -> if we call and he has KK and there come no more diamonds/aces we get it in. If we call and the diamond comes we safe money

      - AA without a diamond
      -> we miss value by raising cause actually it's an easy fold for that hand.

      - AA with a diamond
      -> this is the only point that talks for a raise.. But the change that a diamond comes of on the turn is prette small + this hand still has 36% chance to win the pot.

      That's what I'm thinking at least...
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Farmarchist
      Does it make any difference to just raise or to shove to flop?
      Are you not afraid he folds AA to a raise? If he hasn't a diamond...
      Shipping may look like we want to gain fold equity. :) So I'd be rather towards shoving than min-raising or whatever.
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Originally posted by veriz
      Originally posted by Farmarchist
      Does it make any difference to just raise or to shove to flop?
      Are you not afraid he folds AA to a raise? If he hasn't a diamond...
      Shipping may look like we want to gain fold equity. :) So I'd be rather towards shoving than min-raising or whatever.
      and calling?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Farmarchist
      Originally posted by veriz
      Originally posted by Farmarchist
      Does it make any difference to just raise or to shove to flop?
      Are you not afraid he folds AA to a raise? If he hasn't a diamond...
      Shipping may look like we want to gain fold equity. :) So I'd be rather towards shoving than min-raising or whatever.
      and calling?
      We don't want the another to hip in which would kill action from both side.
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Originally posted by veriz
      Originally posted by Farmarchist
      Originally posted by veriz
      Originally posted by Farmarchist
      Does it make any difference to just raise or to shove to flop?
      Are you not afraid he folds AA to a raise? If he hasn't a diamond...
      Shipping may look like we want to gain fold equity. :) So I'd be rather towards shoving than min-raising or whatever.
      and calling?
      We don't want the another to hip in which would kill action from both side.
      I'm thinking about calling since he can have 2 (3) things here:
      - KK
      -> if we call and he has KK and there come no more diamonds/aces we get it in. If we call and the diamond comes we safe money

      - AA without a diamond
      -> we miss value by raising cause actually it's an easy fold for that hand.

      - AA with a diamond
      -> this is the only point that talks for a raise.. But the change that a diamond comes of on the turn is prette small + this hand still has 36% chance to win the pot.

      That's what I'm thinking at least...
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      If we call and the diamond comes we safe money

      Safe money what? That he folds? :D He is never folding his KK there most likely for the given pot odds.

      -> we miss value by raising cause actually it's an easy fold for that hand.

      Doubt that he is ever folding AA here.
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Originally posted by veriz
      If we call and the diamond comes we safe money

      Safe money what? That he folds? :D He is never folding his KK there most likely for the given pot odds.

      -> we miss value by raising cause actually it's an easy fold for that hand.

      Doubt that he is ever folding AA here.
      With saving money I mean that if a diamonds comes on the turn and he has KK it'll go ch/ch turn and ch/ch river. So the stacks don't go in and we lose the minimum in that exact spot...

      I have to agree with the last statement probably :P