6max ranges vrs full ring ranges?

    • noz03
      noz03
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.03.2012 Posts: 129
      Until now I have played almost only full ring games, especially as I have studied so much about full ring with the big stack strategy from these site... but I really would like to learn to play 6 max also, especially as my favourite site doesnt have too much traffic in the 10max area.

      I guess the main difference between games is the range of hands you play preflop, so this post is mostly asking that. What is a good range to play in a 6max, compared to a full ring game? At the moment when I play 6max I usually play something similar to the starting hand chart and just cut out the utgs, is this ok or is there more I could do? Are there also some types of hands that play better or worse in a short handed game? Shoud I play the late positions ie. button looser than Id play the button in a full ring?

      Also, as a whole, including post flop etc. are there any other big differences I should adapt to play short handed games?

      Thanks for any information that can help! :P
  • 9 replies
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      SH is basically FR with out first 3 positions. Tehnically there isnt anyother difference, but the games does play loser and people tend to 3bet more and play loser in general.
    • eXtremeACE
      eXtremeACE
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.02.2011 Posts: 267
      I was in a similar spot as you are a couple of months before.. I made a switch from BSS FR to BSS SH.. Now I am playing MSS, but that's irrelevant.



      Well, the players will loosen up playing shorthanded which puts you in a lot more marginal spots (situations).. That increases difficulty, but that's also the main reason why you can earn more at SH than at FR.. Basically every hand gets more value than in FR because you can't wait for premiums (blinds will eat you out at much faster pace).

      You must adjust by fighting for a blinds more frequently, as you pay for them more each orbit. As far as postflop goes, you see more flops, and opponents ranges come in much wider, so you should be better at hand reading in order to continue to win at SH.

      IMO, if you're good postflop player you should prefer SH over FR because you'll more often have position vs fish, and can profit! Also variance will increase as well.

      What is a good range to play in a 6max, compared to a full ring game


      I can give you some range at the top of my head, but you should research more on that and start deviate from this chart as soon as you feel more comfortable playing postflop..

      UTG: 77+, A8s+,AJo+ (or all PPs, depending on how feel over them)
      +Broadways (KQs, KJs, KT..perhaps QJs)

      MP: UTG + A7s, KQo, KJo perhaps
      (same with PPs, if you don't feel good playing them, increase from 77 to like 55+, if np playing them play all PPs)

      CO: MP + A6s, A9o, JT, J9s, T9s, QTs..etc

      Button and SB.. IMO, MP + wider, but consider stealing A LOT, depending on who's in blinds, hard to make a chart for this position.

      I think something like that should work, but spend some time and check out 2+2 and here, search for "6max hand range" on the forums, don't know if you'll find something..

      All the best!
    • mrbeer9999
      mrbeer9999
      Basic
      Joined: 11.12.2010 Posts: 182
      Playing with 100bb stack I start with this UTG: AJo+, ATs, KQ, all pairs and then add a few hands in each position. On the button I open a value range of any ace, any 2 9+, SCs down to 65 and pairs. If there are 2 nits in the blinds I just open ATC. If there is a 3-betting maniac I tighten up and shove over them with the best of my range.

      If playing shortstacked you need to lose the baby pocket pairs in EP and pay more attention to broadways.

      I played 6-max Zoom 2NL and 5NL for a month with a 50bb buyin and had a blast. People do seem to stack off lighter when you are a shortie so TPTK becomes the nuts, which it should be anyway if you are short.
    • noz03
      noz03
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.03.2012 Posts: 129
      Thanks extreme for the very detailed and well thought out reply! It does sound a lot like the range for fr without the utgs.

      one question though, you said you play A6s, but arnt the A2s-A5s more profitable because of the extra straight potential? At the moment I usually limp along with all small suited aces in a situation where Im in the CO or later and 2 or more players already limped.

      I guess that is not related to my topic though but just curious your opinion on this :)

      Anyway, I did some searches but havent found much info on 6max strategy, maybe it would be a good idea for someone to make a strategy video on this? Specifically for the players who want to move from FR to SH? Everyone is supposed to start on FR and then move to SH so it would be a very important topic!

      Anyway thanks again extreme.

      Anyone else who has any suggestions, they are more than welcome! :)
    • eXtremeACE
      eXtremeACE
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.02.2011 Posts: 267
      You're welcome noz03,

      one question though, you said you play A6s, but arnt the A2s-A5s more profitable because of the extra straight potential? At the moment I usually limp along with all small suited aces in a situation where Im in the CO or later and 2 or more players already limped.

      Well, it's a common sense to think like that, but you are really just underestimating how much the size of the kicker is important. A6s-A9s are much better than A2s-A5s. For example, the pair of sixes and nines are far more likely to win at a showdown than a pair of deuces.. Also, the 9 is enough to win, while 2 is the worst kicker ever.

      You say you can make a straight with A2s-A5s, and you can, but it generally doesn't overcome the high card strength of the higher kicker..

      TBH, A6s and A5s are very close in strength, and I actually think A5s is a tad more better for straight potential as you say, but A7s, A8s, A9s are much much stronger, no question about it..

      Now it depends on your play, if you're playing these rag aces too passively - for example, do you fold right away with A8s on an Axx board that is rainbow? If so, I can understand why are you thinking that A2s-A5s are much better, but IMO you're really missing the value of the higher kicker in those spots, then..

      In short, the chances of you flopping a straight or even a straight draw are really slim, that it barely adds value to your hand, while higher kicker can win at much bigger % of time.

      Anyway, I did some searches but havent found much info on 6max strategy, maybe it would be a good idea for someone to make a strategy video on this?

      Here you go ;)

      NL $10 SH Session Review
      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/video/7415
      NL $20 SH User Review
      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/video/6857
      NL $10 FR/SH Session Review
      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/video/5685
      NL $10 SH Session Review
      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/video/5450
      NL $10 SH Session Review
      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/video/4361
      NL $5 SH Live Video
      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/video/4258
      NL $50 SH - Session Review
      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/video/873
      Microstakes Maniac - Part 2
      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/video/13310
      Who is your opponent - NL5
      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/video/13906
      Five Star General - Part 5
      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/video/14744
      NL SH $10 - Low to Mid Stakes Series Part I
      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/video/2453

      I could go on and on, there are more trust me, but that's up to you! ;)

      Best of luck!
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Hey,

      I moved this to the No Limit section where the experts and education team will be able to provide you with assistance.

      Best of luck
      Patrick
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Hey noz03,

      There isn't a big difference in theory but the game feels more difficult because you reach postflop more often and with a wider, weaker range than FR.

      Here is an article targeted exactly at FR vs SH comparison:
      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/bss/1569/1/

      Apart from that, I can recommend getting Silver status and watching all of BogdanPS's SH videos. I think they suit beginners perfectly and he also does a lot of FR coaching/playing. He also has some videos for Bronze and below but the best ones are Silver unfortunately for you at this time. :(

      Here are some other videos that might be helpful for you:

      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/video/22595/

      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/video/18345/

      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/video/17921/


      Apart from that, you also have the forum to ask more specific questions about different hands and situations. Best of luck with your transition to SH!

      Regards,
      Manu.
    • DailyDollarPro
      DailyDollarPro
      Silver
      Joined: 11.07.2011 Posts: 145
      Originally posted by noz03
      At the moment I usually limp along with all small suited aces in a situation where Im in the CO or later and 2 or more players already limped.

      I guess that is not related to my topic though but just curious your opinion on this :)
      Don't limp in 6max games. Good players will eat you alive.

      There are two key differences between 6max and FR games. The most obvious is the removal of the first three positions.

      What is less obvious is the result being that a lot more pots will be played heads up. In full ring, a lot of pots end up going multi way. This increases the value of suited connectors and medium pocket pairs as you have much better implied odds to make a big hand. Hands like AQ, JJ and KQ are difficult to play from early position in FR because you will often get two or more players calling or even raising behind you.

      In 6max, your generely going to be playing heads up which means you don't get the same odds playing medium cards to hit a straight or two pair. What you are looking for is good hands that make top pair. AJ KT QJ all go up in value, 57s, 33, A2s go down in value.

      This all assumes 100bb or less stacks. If the game gets deep, the ranges skew back in favour of small & medium cards.
    • noz03
      noz03
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.03.2012 Posts: 129
      Yeah I played a few sessions of 6max and didnt go soo well, not just the overall result to my br but the feeling just wasnt right so im back to full ring for a bit longer. Will try get silver asap and watch every video there is on short hand, and read this post again before I give it another shot later :) Thanks for all the advice though!