5 card draw-valubet question

    • fisherrate
      fisherrate
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.04.2011 Posts: 7
      hi, I just got to table and don't have any reads. Is valubeting hare is right play? Because yesterday i say a player that i think is a reg check in this kind of spot to a player that should be drawing and a player with a pair. Is beting a mistake in this kind of spots or the guy i watched yesterday made a mistake? And what to do against 3 b?
      thanks

      PokerStars Hand #81200037043: 5 Card Draw Limit ($0.50/$1.00 USD) - 2012/05/29 23:17:03 EET [2012/05/29 16:17:03 ET]
      Table 'Papagena VIII' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
      Seat 1: ($19.25 in chips)
      Seat 2: ($18.75 in chips)
      Seat 3: hero ($19.25 in chips)
      Seat 4: ($11.22 in chips)
      Seat 5: ($94.34 in chips)
      Seat 6: ($38.73 in chips)
      seat 2: posts small blind $0.25
      hero: posts big blind $0.50
      *** DEALING HANDS ***
      Dealt to hero [Js 4c 5h 8d Ah]
      seat 4: calls $0.50
      seat 5: calls $0.50
      seat 6: folds
      seat 1: folds
      seat 2: folds
      hero: checks
      hero: discards 3 cards [4c 5h 8d]
      Dealt to hero [Js Ah] [Jh Jc 6h]
      seat 4: discards 3 cards
      seat 5: discards 1 card
      hero: bets $1
      seat 4: folds
      seat 5: raises $1 to $2
      hero: :( ???
  • 10 replies
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,145
      For future reference, there is a good hand converter here:
      http://www.feralcowpoker.com/poker-hand-history-converter.php
      that does a reasonable job on 5CD hands.

      For me, I'm with you on this:
      b/c here.
      The only reason I can see to check trips would be to c/r which means that you need to be reasonably sure the villain would bet. If they check behind you waste a good opportunity, because if he has 2pr he will likely call.

      I would not 3Bet his pd raise either unless I knew he was really fishy.
      Do people at this limit habitually draw 1 with trips?
      You have to call. The hands that beat you are relatively rare.

      Note that I don't play this limit, so I could be way off the mark.
    • jbpatzer
      jbpatzer
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2009 Posts: 6,947
      Seat 4 obv drew to a small pair and seat 5 to flush or straight. Hard to see how you're getting called by worse if you bet. Check/call (maybe check/raise?) seat 4 and check/fold to seat 5 unless you have a read that he bluffs too much.
    • fisherrate
      fisherrate
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.04.2011 Posts: 7
      The guy who draws with small pair will call any 2 pair +
    • p44mc
      p44mc
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2010 Posts: 36
      I'm almost certain seat 5 made a draw, but it's still right to lead out, I b/c every time here, your not getting called by worse if you b/r and there's to much value to x/c or x/f - almost certain to lose on a b/c but i still go for it to avoid an exploitable table image and gain value when he misses the draw but seat 4 makes 2-pair or lower trips
    • jbpatzer
      jbpatzer
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2009 Posts: 6,947
      Originally posted by fisherrate
      The guy who draws with small pair will call any 2 pair +
      He will bet them for you. He limped a small pair, so he's a fish. The only way it's getting checked through is if neither of them improved, in which case they wouldn't have called a bet.
    • Huricano
      Huricano
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.08.2010 Posts: 2,228
      Normally auto-check to the guy who draws 1.
      If you saw him open raise weak 2 pairs and his range is between busted draws/made draws there is no point in c/r and you can only c/c, however most players(limpers) will limp with weak 2 pairs so c/r seems standard.
      What to do when he 3-bet? I would say fold, but I can't because I'm never folding...and actually never win vs 3-bet... :f_cry:

      Lead is OK when you think he won't bet weak 2 pairs in this spot when action goes check-check to him, but he will call your bet with them. Post screen name and stats if you have, so I can tell you more precisely what to do :)

      //sorry for English
    • jbpatzer
      jbpatzer
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2009 Posts: 6,947
      I've been thinking about this hand, and actually, predraw, it's a nice spot to raise and snow. They will call. They have crap. You bet post draw and either they fold (you're risking 1.25BB to win 1.25BB so it's immediate profit if they both fold >50% of the time), or they look you up and see that you like to snow. You can then value bet thinner because they're more likely to call you and they're also more likely to pay you off when you are really pat (or you can sometimes pat two pair in the right spot and get paid off by an unbelieving AAxxx). I wouldn't overdo this sort of thing, and it depends on the table dynamics, but I think it needs to be done every now and then.

      Huricano will probably disagree. Is this you??

    • Huricano
      Huricano
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.08.2010 Posts: 2,228
      Originally posted by jbpatzer
      I've been thinking about this hand, and actually, predraw, it's a nice spot to raise and snow. They will call. They have crap. You bet post draw and either they fold (you're risking 1.25BB to win 1.25BB so it's immediate profit if they both fold >50% of the time), or they look you up and see that you like to snow. You can then value bet thinner because they're more likely to call you and they're also more likely to pay you off when you are really pat (or you can sometimes pat two pair in the right spot and get paid off by an unbelieving AAxxx). I wouldn't overdo this sort of thing, and it depends on the table dynamics, but I think it needs to be done every now and then.
      Math professor... :heart:
    • jbpatzer
      jbpatzer
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2009 Posts: 6,947
      Originally posted by Huricano
      Originally posted by jbpatzer
      I've been thinking about this hand, and actually, predraw, it's a nice spot to raise and snow. They will call. They have crap. You bet post draw and either they fold (you're risking 1.25BB to win 1.25BB so it's immediate profit if they both fold >50% of the time), or they look you up and see that you like to snow. You can then value bet thinner because they're more likely to call you and they're also more likely to pay you off when you are really pat (or you can sometimes pat two pair in the right spot and get paid off by an unbelieving AAxxx). I wouldn't overdo this sort of thing, and it depends on the table dynamics, but I think it needs to be done every now and then.
      Math professor... :heart:
      Ooops! Counting was never my strong point. There's $1.50 in the pot. I raise to $1 and they call so I've put in 50c and the pot is $3 when they call. I bet another $1 postdraw, so if they fold I've put in $1.50 to win $2.50. Even better. They only have to fold > 37.5% of the time. :D Or did I fuck it up again? :f_confused:
    • Huricano
      Huricano
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.08.2010 Posts: 2,228
      Without much details like rake or dead money from SB that fold predraw, yes you are right this time...

      So the actuall odds for Raise+SP are very favourable and It looks like the most EV+ line assuming you won't get called too offen (or limp/raised)!
      Well if players give you credit for a hand SP is always good move cuz they fold more offen than they should... =)

      However if you decide to draw 3 and made a JJJ from freeplay and other drawings goes 3-1 or 1-1 the most EV+ line at 0.5/1$ in this spot is simply to check/raise/fold...with some reads you can simply x/c (for example opp has stats 30/10 and u saw him Open Raise weak 2 pairs!)
      Nvm I'm too drunk for this...<facepalm.jpg>